Horse News

BLM’s Bob Abbey talks Wild Horses and Burros: Fact or Fiction?

“In my Humble Opinion!” by R.T. Fitch – Author of “Straight from the Horse’s Heart

June 3, 2010 Bureau of Land Management (BLM) Director Bob Abbey announced that his agency plans to take the Wild Horse and Burro Program in a new direction, and in so doing he is requesting public comment on the document that implements Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar’s Wild Horse and Burro Initiative (Salazoo).

That’s pretty close to how the press release opens and reading those words makes me sit a little deeper into the saddle and latch onto the horn just a tad tighter because I feel something beginning to collect between my legs and the outcome is not going to be pretty.

It’s almost as if you are afraid to read any deeper into the announcement as truth and accuracy, to date, have not been forth coming from the BLM.  Although the words “seeking public input” has merit the mention of Salazar’s death zoo concept makes one’s blood boil.  (Let’s spend millions of dollars to round-up the last of our native wild horses, sterilize them and then spend untold millions more shipping them back east to leased or bought property with different forage to watch them wither away and die, gone forever.)  Can’t get me too revved up over a plan like that; neither scientifically or emotionally.

Although I hope that one day we can have productive and fruitful dialogue with an agency that looks over our wild horses, hopefully not the BLM, this current invitation appears to be flawed from the git-go.

The entire idea of well rounded discussion is immediately stifled when Abbey inserts caveats such as;

certain topics and options will be off the table, including the euthanasia of healthy excess animals or their sale without limitation to protect the animals from slaughter

Sorry dude, that’s one of the FIRST things I want to discuss as your agency has not only been involved with but makes it easy for our national heritage to slip across our boarders to be butchered for wealthy foreigner’s dinner plates.  And it can and IS still happening today!  Excuse me while I clear my throat, “Errr, cough, hrmmm, excess horses my ass, brmmm, cough!”  There, that feels better.

Also, without producing accurate numbers or qualifying the need Abbey say’s that the unnecessary and deadly helicopter stampeded round-ups will continue;

These gather operations are being carefully analyzed, engaging the public in the planning process.”

Says who?  Last December while your henchman Don Glenn was standing before a small group of equine welfare advocates extolling how transparent you all are a wild horse herd was being zeroed out in a covert, unannounced round-up and you expect us to believe you now?  Pardon me while I sneeze, “DOINK!”  thank you.

Carefully analyzed!?!?  For Pete’s sake you screwed up the math on the Calico Complex round-up and stopped stampeding horses well under the number you intended to gather because why?  You ran out of blinking horses to harass and capture, you had no idea how many were really out there.  You claim that you left 600 horses on the range and multiple flyovers and visits from independent sources indicate that if there are 100 still surviving, we are lucky.

Based on the best information the BLM currently has, without these gathers the land will suffer, wildlife will suffer, and ultimately, the horses will suffer.”

And where did you acquire that “best information”?  Would it perchance come from your boss’s buddy’s from the cattle industry?  How about stampeding the forage destroying, privately owned cattle off from our public lands and let the non-destructive, native wild horses alone?  That would be a novel concept.  And how much would that cost, you know, just to leave the horses on the land that Congress put aside for them to live on?  Hmmm, let me get out my calculator, this is going to be complicated…cipher this to the 8th power of that, shift the decimal point to the left and the grand total comes up to be ZERO!  Goodness gracious, why have we not thought of this sooner?

It just blows my mind how this mess goes from dumb to dumber; somehow I missed that “Government Employee Double Talk 101” class in college.  It must have been over in that “Bachelor of Incompetency” program.  I knew I messed up, just imagine the freedom a graduate from DOI U must have as they are not held accountable for anything while the rest of we dumb idiots are forced to live the truth and are required to produce deliverables throughout our careers.  Life could have been so easy but we just had to go and pick the path of accountability, bunch of dopes.

Abbey’s press release closes with a statement that indicates there are 38,000 horses left free with 35,000 held in concentration camps.  The former is probably way high and the later may tend to be a tad conservative.  Wonder how many of that alleged 35,000 are still alive and intact as the public has not been allowed to verify the well being of captives.  How many truckloads have been shipped across the boarder for slaughter as that is just what the BLM wanted to do two years ago and I don’t think a leopard changes spots that quickly.

But at least Abbey is being honest in bringing to light one thing; the fact that the BLM’s mission is near completion.  They have reached, at minimum, the point where there are more horses held in captivity then are free in the wild and that very, very soon…there will be no more wild horses, none, zero, nada, zippo.

That you can count on.

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184 replies »

  1. Thank you RT, every word rings with the sound of truth, yours not theirs. When I read how they were seeking public approval I choked. This sounds all well and good when released to the public–see how we are trying to involve the public, even those crazy, sniveling horse huggers. Of course what the public doesn’t realize is that in reality the die has already been cast, this is just some cheap joke, nothing more nothing less. Sure I’ll comment, will they read it Hell NO. It will never make sense no matter how you spin it. I had wanted to take a road trip next year to see the wild horses, I fear I waited too long unless I bring a set of field glasses and perch myself on a hill overlooking a long term molding facility. They should have taught us this in government class, but we were young and they probably didn’t think we could handle the truth.

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  2. Well R.T. another great post!

    What I would like to know who are the stakeholders?

    I have written to the BLM asking for the list and was told it was to long to email and I would have to speak to so and so.

    Does anyone know who are the stakeholders?

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  3. This is from the Wilderness Society:

    Even as the gusher in the Gulf continues to devastate our lands and waters, the oil industry and its allies are pushing for access to America’s public lands. Now, Sarah Palin and others are calling for drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. This sacred and beloved place has been off limits to oil development for more than 50 years. Please Mr. Salazar, don’t allow the coastal plain of the Arctic Refuge to be the next place for an oil spill. Not on your watch.

    Thank you for your leadership.

    (Who are they kidding?)

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    • Even as the oil spews Gov Jindall is stating he wants more oil drilling!!! What he doesn’t have enough problems on his hands already?

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  4. R.T. you go dude ;), I believe you said exactly how almost all of us feel in this article & I thank you from the bottom of my heart. I will be going to the BLM workshop in Denver to listen & be involved, but seriously I think the BLM will NOT listen to us. I sincerely hope a lot of advocates show up to this, at least to make a stand & be strong in our numbers. So far the BLM seems to be ignoring all of our input, comments or suggestions and offers to help the Wild Horses that are left. Again, thank you!

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  5. Trust is earned not a given, and the BLM , Salazar and Abbey have not done anything to earn our trust..We had to demand a web portal with the DOI to put forth our ideas and suggestions when the Calco roundup started..not a one was used.If this was a good faith offer of negotiation..they would observe a moratorium until issues could be worked out, as they are doing on the off shore welling drilling..It is difficult to believe they are sincere..this is a PR stunt-so they can say..look these advocates are just unreasonable and you can’t work with them..I have been following the treasured landscape theory..All it means is the american people decide which places they want to hold on to..you can kiss the rest goodbye..now they mention in this newsletter they want to do the same with the horses..make treasured herds..They are ALL treasured herds.keep your filthy political hands OFF them.

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  6. Truer words never spoken, RT! I began studying the BLM after the round-up of Cloud’s herd. That Labor Day weekend, we called the BLM and were lied to. The BLM creates a “plan,” which they then circumvent at will, for example, the taking of Conquistador and the older horses, fail to publish a round-up in the Federal Register, and lie in the faces of horse advocates, as you stated. I will NOT be going to their meeting or anywhere near them It is too tempting to take fire power at this point. I am that angry.

    My research on the BLM going back to the 90’s proves only one thing, which I state emphatically, because I know they read this blog. The BLM leaves a trail of dead wild horses whereever they go. A pox on them! They are transparent all right. We are able to see right through them!

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  7. I wrote Tom Gorey yesterday to ask him how this “new direction” squares with him saying on camera last year that the BLM will be really ramping up the round ups over the next 3 years. Here is his response:

    “The BLM recognizes that for the near term, gathers must continue so we can achieve the appropriate management level on the range of 26,600. Right now the on-range population exceeds that figure by nearly 12,000.
    The ultimate goal, once the appropriate management level is achieved, is to bring the population growth rate into better alignment with public adoption demand, which currently is about 3,500 animals per year. That would reduce the number of gathers in future and would result in fewer animals going into holding.”
    Regards,
    Tom Gorey

    Tom Gorey
    Senior Public Affairs Specialist
    BLM Public Affairs
    Washington, D.C.
    202-912-7420

    I see no indication of a new direction in this response, or that he has even read his agency’s own press release. And the appropriate management level seems to be the main issue to start with. That said, I do like that an independent firm has written a report on the issues at hand and that a weblink has been set up to upload comments and documents to the BLM for review. However, without new people and new thinking in this good old boy agency, I am skeptical about how sincere they actually are.

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    • My question: Is the BLM commiting to maintain 26,000 wild ones on the HMAs or other public lands?

      My trusty calculator says 26,000 x .25 (herds doubling every 4 years) = 6,500 removals per year to comply with the BLM policy of removals to low AMLs. Considering a 3,500 per year adoption rate, that would leave 3,000 unadopted wild ones each year. So far, using figures from the BLM website, 3,500 is much higher than their published adoption/sales records.

      If the actual census is lower, but the BLM sticks to 26,000 head on the HMAs, continues to project increases mathematically, and removes 6,500 head per year, the outcome will essentially be terminal within a relatively short time. Our supposedly-protected wild herds will be reduced in such great numbers that inbreeding and extinction on their legally-designated HMAs will be all but guaranteed.

      If my calculations are off, or anyone disagees with my assessment and thinks I’m an alarmist, please let me know.

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  8. this is what we need to focus on:
    “A BLM Subcommittee of its Associate State Directors’ Field Committee co‐chaired by Mike
    Mottice and Ruth Welch is overseeing the work of a Strategy Implementation Team, or SIT,
    organized into five smaller teams: Adoptions, Treasured Herds, Preserves, Sustainable Herds,
    and Communications. The SIT is charged with developing a written Strategy for the Initiative.
    The Strategy will be part of a report to Congress presently scheduled for delivery by late
    September 2010.”
    this comes from the conflict resolution group who supposedly contacted stake holders..i would like for those who were contacted by this group to speak up.

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    • I mean, you WERE kidding, right, Sandra?

      I’m really, really glad I don’t have to see any of these slime-balls in person, because, seriously I can only control my temper just so far, and the BLM is WAAY past my tolerance level.

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    • Sandra, where did yo get this info from? I wonder if there is any way at all to have any impact? And this says “just part”. Wonder what that means – is another part the committee that Craig Downer and Madeliene Pickens on I wonder? Haven’t heard anything more about that in forever.

      Hopefully the “good guys” in BLM will finally stand up. Remember Craig was with BLM once, and many others that have spoken out since leaving – I’m going to think positive on this for now – unless they start BLM “speak” – which is always about “maintaining the managment policies”, which everyone knows is broken, never about the public, the ecology, real science, or the horses and burros.

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  9. Thank rt for posting this, when I read it yesterday, my emotions went the gamut, from hoe to what the hell!!!!! if they would just stop the roundups I’d put more credence to what they have to say,
    anyway, thanks for expressing my thoughts,

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  10. BusinessDictionary defines ‘stakeholder’ as:
    “Person, group or organization that has direct or indirect stake in an organization because it can affect or be affected by the organization’s actions, objectives, and policies. Key stakeholders in a business organization include creditors, customers, directors, employees, government (and its agencies), owners (shareholders), suppliers, unions, and the community from which the business draws its resources. Although stake-holding is usually self-legitimizing (those who judge themselves to be stakeholders are de facto so), all stakeholders are not equal and different stakeholders are entitled to different considerations. For example, a firm’s customers are entitled to fair trading practices but they are not entitled to the same consideration as the firm’s employees. See also corporate governance.”

    This seems to preclude any group of American Citizens or Taxpayers who don’t own a business large & important enough to be in bed with the Federal government or it’s ‘satellites’, however, from the above definition, the Public should also be considered ‘stakeholders’. Just not ‘equal’.

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  11. Here is the response from the BLM regarding stakeholders:

    Hi Ms. Mullen,

    BLM stakeholders are groups and individuals who have an interest in the
    Public Lands and the resources on the Public Lands. These stakeholders
    include individuals and groups interested in some aspect of wild horses and
    burros and wildlife and ranching and hiking and camping and oil and gas and
    forests and water and cultural artifacts and mining and recreation, etc.
    The list really does go on and on and it would be difficult to provide a
    specific list of every one of the stakeholders. Thanks, Sally

    ****************************************
    Sally Spencer
    Wild Horse & Burro Program
    Office: 202-452-5196
    Fax: 202-653-9084

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    • “The list goes on and on”

      Last time I checked they have a web page – they can’t post it there? I do not expect them to post names, but clearly enough about their “interest as a stakeholder” would be nice, and nice to see us “anti gather” advocates represented.

      Hey Sally at BLM – TRANSPARENCY!

      I have been involved in these and my cities always hired a University, a 3rd party impartial group, to do the survey and provide the results. So unless individuals came forward, as most did, because we held open discussion also, one would never know exaclty who was contacted. And the reports were on our websites and still might be there.

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  12. BLM Advisory Board as of June 09:

    Wild Horse and Burro Advocacy
    Ms. Robin Lohnes
    Executive Director
    American Horse Protection Association
    1000 29th Street, NW Suite T-100
    Washington, D.C. 20007
    AMHRSEPROT@AOL.COM
    (Term Expires: 01/08/2012)

    Livestock Management
    Ms. Renee C. Taylor
    Taylor Environmental Consulting, LLC
    P.O. Box 1734
    100 S. Pou Road
    Evansville, Wyoming 82636
    renee@taylor-environmental.com
    (Term Expires: 06/14/2010)

    Humane Advocacy
    Vacant

    Natural Resources Management
    Dr. J. Wayne Burkhardt
    2410 River Road
    Indian Valley, Idaho 83632
    rangeswest@ctcweb.net
    (Term Expires: 06/14/2010)

    Veterinary Medicine
    Dr. Boyd Spratling
    Starr Valley Route
    P.O. Box 27
    Deeth, Nevada 89823
    boyddvm@wellsrec.net
    (Term Expires: 01/08/2012)

    Wildlife Management
    Mr. Larry Johnson
    Black Eagle Consulting, Inc.
    1345 Capital Boulevard, Suite A
    Reno, NV 89502-7140
    Johnson@blackeagleconsulting.com
    (Term Expires: 11/06/2009)

    Wild Horse and Burro Research
    Dr. Vernon D. Dooley
    1074 Lane 11
    Powell, Wyoming 82435
    dooleyv@northwestcollege.edu
    (Term Expires: 06/14/2010)

    Livestock Management
    Mr. Gary Zakotnik
    68A Eden West 1st South Road
    Eden, Wyoming 82932
    gzakotni@wyoming.com
    (Term Expires: 11/06/2009)

    Public Interest
    Ms. Janet M. Jankura
    3550 Saint Andrews Lane
    Richfield, Ohio 44286
    Janet.jankura@hiintergrity.com
    (Term Expires: 01/08/2012)

    ****************************************
    Sally Spencer
    Wild Horse & Burro Program
    Office: 202-452-5196
    Cell: 202-641-6106
    Fax: 202-653-9084
    ****************************************

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    • just google one of these people on the list and look what comes up-Nevada CATTLEMANS assoc! how corrupy can they be 😦

      Boyd Spratling: ZoomInfo Business People Information
      Dr. Boyd Spratling. View Title… Nevada Cattlemen’s Association · Find more info on this person at Intelius.com. Boyd’s profile was created using:

      Like

      • For Gods sake the head Vet on this ‘wild horse’ board is a cattleman!

        The BLM have done nothing at all good for wild horses except the mustang makeover. One good thing in 40 years and kill off a Native species and ruin our public lands and squander the taxpayer money and scam people with fake boards.

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      • BLM is looking for three MORE members. Closes sometime the first week of August. I hope some here have been all over that – contacting people who can serve on this board in the horses favor.

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  13. More from the BLM:

    A draft document entitled Alternative Management Options was released in a
    FOIA request. This document was developed by BLM staff to identify and
    evaluate the pros and cons of critical issues for managers to make informed
    decisions. Options evaluated in the paper are increased fertility control,
    adjustments to sex ratios to favor males, experimental use of spayvac or
    gonacon, castration/vasectomy for stallions, non-reproductive herds and
    buyouts or agreements with livestock permittees to graze wild horses. The
    requirements of the Wild Free Roaming Horses and Burros Act, euthanasia and
    sale without limitation, are also included. Many of these options were
    addressed by the Advisory Board in their 19 recommendations to BLM. This
    paper is not a decision document, it is only an identification and analysis
    of alternatives. Thanks, Sally

    ****************************************
    Sally Spencer
    Wild Horse & Burro Program
    Office: 202-452-5196
    Cell: 202-641-6106
    Fax: 202-653-9084

    Like

    • Isn’t this the woman who was listed on Jason Medunas main webpage as a person to call to check him out?

      If so don’t think she cares much about wild horses at all.

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    • WOW. I mean WOW in a good way for a change. I recognize this layout. This is a substantial action plan, that could reap some good results. We’ll have to wait and see, but bravo so far (I have not read it in detail yet, will devour it tonight.

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  14. They have a lot of explaining to do. Don’t forget the documents that were released under the Freedom of in Information Act. They are posted on many sites.
    The first step in their new direction is to replace all of the people who have had anything to do with the last decade (or more) of destruction. There are those here who could probably tell us just how long this mess has been going on. I am still somewhat new this and am learning fast.

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    • agree, we need to target some of these criminals one by one, and get them booted out of their horse killing jobs.

      Perhaps we need to hire a PI company and one by one, expose them.

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  15. Right on all points, RT! Just another day at the office for the BLM. With the oil crisis in the gulf, I imagine (IMO) they needed to divert attention and make it look like they were doing something productive with another issue they have managed to run into the ground (literally for our wild horses and burros). How can they have a “new direction” when they are unwilling to alter their course? They don’t want our input, they are just required to ask for it. Another box checked. Just maddening! I knew that fighting the BLM was going to be tough, that geting them to even consider some changes would be a long battle, but I never imagined in my life that so many, many of our elected officials would just turn a deaf ear. Even the few who have stepped forward to make comments have faded into the background again. Is there no one who will consistently and continually stand up for these animals but us?! I can only hope the disaster in the gulf will keep a spotlight on Salazar and his wrong doings and hopefully convince Obama that this man definitely needs to go. When is enough, enough?

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  16. Thanks for the info., R.T. You know, I’m just an ordinary citizen, who, by nature, happens to love horses. So, even though I know all the numbers & statistics are very important, what’s more important is, that WE ALL MUST somehow band together, & take these wild spirits back, by WHATEVER force is necessary!! By rights, from what I read, WE are, or, should be, the “stakeholders”, as WE are the ones who truly have the mustangs best interests in mind, WE are the ones who love them & care about their well-being, WE are the ones who wish to save & protect them from our STUPID government, & from extinction!!!! I live in the middle of the country, in the state of Missouri, so I don’t have the means to be able to just drive out somewhere to see these beautiful horses in the wild, how I WISH I could ! By the time we can afford a long trip to see them(hopefully, in my lifetime), HOPEFULLY, THEY will still be there, wild & FREE, where they belong, but, it will take all of us, to stand up to all those government idiots, & DEMAND freedom for OUR horses!!

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  17. “””certain topics and options will be off the table, including the euthanasia of healthy excess animals or their sale without limitation to protect the animals from slaughter””””

    This just sucks!!! could see over the past many years- they had not a care in the world zeroing out herds of wild horses and can see why they try hard to kill as many as they can with round-up and care conditions so horrid.

    They have no plans to ever let wild horses be really free again on land that is good wild horse land. Never again will we see the fine work of mother nature and natural selection of generations of horses.

    Salazar zoos..NO this man should be drummed out of office!! more of his same squandering of taxpayer money paying private friends of his tax money to be a zoo for horses waiting to die.

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    • I’m not interesting in tarring them or anything like that. We can see they way we have been ‘asking’ the BLM to change and showing to the public their horse abuse, making some court cases.
      After 40ish years of people asking and the BLM hiding. …the BLM are STILL plodding on with their criminal ways. Very soon now all the ‘real’ wild horses will be gone all our public lands will be leased off for 10s of years leases to their ‘friends’ or sold to buddie ranches.

      A couple more years for the blm to hide their abuse, placate (as they call the avocates) the vegans, pander to ‘woman’, hide their dealings and its going to be ALL the ‘real’ wild horses in deathcamp jails.

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  18. Has anyone else gotten an email from the BLM today? I just got one stating that “Over the next 60 days, we invite our interested stakeholders to offer their opinions and suggestions about the draft goals and objectives, as well as the series of possible management actions” and “We value your input and look forward to any suggestions you may have to assist the BLM to improve the Wild Horse and Burro Program. Thank you for your interest and participation in this important effort.”

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    • Yes, i just read the exact same email a minute ago, I will reply and comment and try to keep a civil tongue while doing so,

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  19. The word Stakeholder is key here!!!

    Write back to the BLM and ask them to list the Stakeholders!

    Does this include the taxpaper i.e. us???

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    • Stakeholder definition
      Question
      I keep hearing the term, “stakeholder.” What is that?
      Answer
      A stakeholder is a person that has an interest (stake) in a project or organization, like a business.

      Stakeholders can include employees, internal teams, customers, vendors and even members of the surrounding community or local economy who are affected by business decisions.

      Like

  20. Robin and Marge, Check this out from earlier post by Lisa. I think this answers your question – YES they are going after public input:

    Click to access KWFinalPlan.pdf

    I have not received the e-mail from BLM, but I have not been active in dialogue with them. I wonder if it is too late to get on? Who was the e-mail from – would there be a way for any of us to get on board? They should do an on-line engage page like they did for DOI earlier this year.

    I have been called a Pollyanna and I proudly accept that – but this really “appears” to be a change in course and a good one. Fingers crossed (and toes).

    But beware of a Pollyanna’s scorn when crossed!

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    • PS – lets recall the scope of the earlier DOI engage page – it was not to obtain specific solutions to anything, it was how to be more transparent and get people involved (I think – would have ot go back – anyone keep the “scope” and share it again here). Maybe this current activity IS evidence that they are going that direction. ? I think it deserves our attention and patience and an open mind – though I still need to research Kerns West (would rather it were Univeristy driven – maybe – they can be beholden to their doners too).

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    • Roxy – Polly 2.0 here…
      bob abbey, on his BLM web page, cited the Bureau’s acknowledgement of recommendations by the ECR. Since I already have numerous callouses from my Pollyanna-ism jumpin’ up and bitin’ me in my Generously Padded, I’m prepared to take a few more hits.
      After all, what are we if not eternally optimistic?
      If it’s still business as usual, well, Hell, we’ve been there and done that. We recover & trudge onward. We don’t have a choice, really.
      My end game, my El Dorado, is herds that self-regulate, that live & die on their own terms with little or no interference from the well-meaning or misinformed.
      And for their Captive counterparts to live secure lives with the possibility of some kind of freedom here in the West.
      I can swallow a lot of pride to fulfill those goals. Even offer my hand to an ‘enemy’.

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  21. Roxy and Marge, I checked my email and the email address it came from was “whb-news@blm.gov” and the name was “BLM Wildhorse and Burro”. At the bottom of the email was this: To unsubscribe from this mailing list, please visit http://www.wildhorseandburro.blm.gov/newslists/signup_email.php

    Can you visit and sign up? I put myself on a mailing list a couple years ago to get updates, and have been engaging in dialogue with them recently thanks to prompting from one of my senators (he had to intervene on my behalf to get a response to a letter I sent back in February of this year; response was same stuff, different day, but I’m working on another letter to senator since the gulf oil crisis is front and center and I’m in Alabama – the Good Lord does open doors).

    Marge, will try to get a list of the stakeholders. I’m wondering if it’s just a long list compiled from several mailing lists they have, but I’ll try nonetheless. Why do you suppose they sent out the emails if we are all invited to comment regardless?

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    • Robin, thanks so much. I have signed up and will attempt to get on retroactively. I did so a year or more ago but was so disappointd in responses I got, so when I changed internet providers I did not even think of re-signing.

      But I want to say this to BLM before I do so, I will respond to this project with upmost respect and with ernest regard for a postive outcome. Since you, BLM, are reading our posts, you need to understand these points – this is just me, not representative of any advocate individual or group: 1) This is an advocay page so I do not have to be respectuful to ignorance and corruption here. 2) This actually appears to me to be a possible covert attempt to subvert REAL reorganizaiton by say, the erc (which can’t help but notice the statement on every page something like “BLM does not endorse this erc”). 3) Do not expect me, as an advocate to accept you doing your own outreach or accept any results – are you kidding me? You, BLM, are the FOX, you cannot be in charge of the hen house and any corrupt attempt to do so will only make you look even worse in the end. THE END

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    • Robin, also, I also watched most of the congressional testimony of Mary Kendall – couldn’t sleep – but could not remember her name. I am glad you mentioned it here. I beleive all of these are archived and recommend everyone watch her report to congress – very enlghtening.

      I agree she is a very important person – we need to watch the goings on carefully – she appears un fettered by oil interestes, so should expect the same cattle interests. Though, remember the scope of her job – she will not take sides on issues, she is only targeting corruption.

      Yeh, Bob Abbey going to clean up MMS!?!?!? Further evidence of Salazars unintelligence, inapptitude and where his interests apparently come from.

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  22. A BLM Subcommittee of its Associate State Directors’ Field Committee co‐chaired by Mike Mottice and Ruth Welch is overseeing the work of a Strategy Implementation Team, or SIT, organized into five smaller teams: Adoptions, Treasured Herds, Preserves, Sustainable Herds,and Communications. The SIT is charged with developing a written Strategy for the Initiative.
    The Strategy will be part of a report to Congress presently scheduled for delivery by late September 2010.

    Does anyone have a list of the above committee? Has anyone googled the two individuals listed? BLM sub-committees is an immediate red flag!

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  23. When I want an answer from the BLM I go directly to:

    Sally Spencer
    Wild Horse & Burro Program
    Office: 202-452-5196
    Cell: 202-641-6106
    Fax: 202-653-9084

    After several emails and the run around we have developed a cordial relationship.

    Also please remember most of the responses from the BLM are form letters that are sent to anyone who inquires about the wild horses and that includes the letters sent to your state reps. I emailed all three of my senators and they all sent back the exact same letter from the BLM.

    I am thankful they are against slaughter.

    Like

  24. I keep hearing the term, “stakeholder.” What is that?
    Answer
    A stakeholder is a person that has an interest (stake) in a project or organization, like a business. I keep hearing the term, “stakeholder.” What is that?
    Answer
    A stakeholder is a person that has an interest (stake) in a project or organization, like a business.

    The BLM stakeholders are cattlemen, Oil and Gas and a few more who want to control the land that belongs to the wild horses!!!

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    • Marge, Try Wikipedia, there is more than just his cut and paste:

      Stakeholder may refer to:

      Stakeholder (corporate), a person, group, organization, or system who affects or can be affected by an organization’s actions
      Project stakeholder, a person, group or organization with an interest in a project.
      Stakeholder theory, a theory that identifies and models the groups which are stakeholders of a corporation or project
      Stakeholder analysis, the process of identifying those affected by a project or event
      Stakeholder (law), a third party who temporarily holds money or property while its owner is still being determined
      See also: Stakeholder management

      This gives good explanation too, they clearly hold the public and advocates both as stakeholders: http://www.ecr.gov/pdf/KWFinalPlan.pdf

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  25. Roxy I understand the definition of stakeholder.

    What I am saying the definition of stakeholder within the BLM has a whole different meaning.

    Also the KW Final Plan lists at the very beginning the following:

    THIS DOCUMENT IS NOT ADOPTED OR ENDORSED BY
    THE BLM OR THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR.

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    • Ok, got it now. And agree. I’ve already posted about the Fox doing public outreach for the benefit of the hens in the hen house.

      But the erc proposal and all the work they have already done is not endorsed by BLM – YET. Because it calls them out and they don’t like it. But BLM should not have the final say anyway if this goes accordingly – that would make the Attorney General suspect and I don’t think that will happen. Especially since she has already testified to DOI corruption and that they have been addressing ethics within DOI since 2006 already, but it is a HUGE agency. And I don’t thin the public will stand for any shananigans, not with the oil spill and possilby more and more to come as the long term MMS corruption comes to light, that will shine on all of DOI in the long run.

      I’m going to hold out hope, not for this foolish BLM outreach (though I will participate), but for real intervention – I’ve seen it done – it can be done.

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    • This report is the result of their investigation to the issues involved. It would not be “endorsed” by the BLM as then it would not be independent.

      Like

      • Aha, yes, that makes more sense than what I was thinking. I notice that the survey is ePlanning – haven’t been able to determine what that is exactly (all financial planning stuff on the internet). Anyone know more? And is that/or are they using an independent 3rd party? Perhaps it is explained when you actually get into the site (Monday probably for me).

        I’m still encouraged, though skeptical.

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  26. WE NOW HAVE ALL EYES ON D.O.INT- LETS FILL EVERYONE IN ON THE CORRUPT LIARS.
    REPORT ALL DPT OF INTERIOR/BLM/MMS/USWS- LIES CORRUPTION ANIMAL ABUSE/ECOCIDE
    MARY KENDALL DEPT OF INTERIOR ACTING INSPECTOR GENERAL – (HER REPORT SAYING MMS WAS TOTALLY CORRUPT WAS REFRENCED BY OBAMA DURING A NEWS CONFRENCE ON GULF SPILL- SHES NOT ONE OF THEM (BLM )( AND WAS AT EPA BEFORE )AND I BELIEVE IS WORKING ON INVESTIGATION OF BLM NOW- SALAZAR JUST PUT BOB LYING ABBEY IN CHARGE OF MMS- TO “CLEAN IT UP ” HA- HA – HA – ANYWAY SHE PRETTY MUCH TRASHED THE WHOLE DOI BUNCH AT AN ENERGY COMMITEE HEARING I CAUGHT ON C-SPAN THE OTHER NIGHT- LETS REPORT EVERYTHING WE HAVE ON BLM TO HER ASAP :
    – please all their lies also – like about horses starving ect.-
    http://www.doioig.gov/form/hotlinecmp_form.php

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    • Shari, opps – I got caught up , responded to Robin by accident – repposting here:

      Roxy
      Jun 04, 2010 @ 19:16:42

      Robin, also, I also watched most of the congressional testimony of Mary Kendall – couldn’t sleep – but could not remember her name. I am glad you mentioned it here. I beleive all of these are archived and recommend everyone watch her report to congress – very enlghtening.

      I agree she is a very important person – we need to watch the goings on carefully – she appears un fettered by oil interestes, so should expect the same cattle interests. Though, remember the scope of her job – she will not take sides on issues, she is only targeting corruption.

      Yeh, Bob Abbey going to clean up MMS!?!?!? Further evidence of Salazars unintelligence, inapptitude and where his interests apparently come from.

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  27. Haven’t read all posts…but even FOXNews (O’Reily) is calling for the resignation of Napalitano and Salazar…these 2 are heavy status quo weenies.. FOX is calling for their removal?

    Good Gravy!!!!

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    • Off topic for a moment – Napalitona? That is bizarre (and possibly only partisan spin?). I’m no fan of Fox or O’Reilly. I’m no fan of any talking head no matter what side, but sometimes some make some sense – I’ve decided talking heads will be our ruination if we don’t get them into perspective. I am interested in his thought process though – will try their web see if I can find it.

      Arizona is totally falling apart since she left, there is NO balance – actually I wish she would get fired and come back – I might want to stay here if that happened.

      Further off topic, Fox is publically and officiallly bashing a comedian for taking stabs at Bush. So its ok for Limbaugh et al to bash whoever they want since they are “just entertainers”, but Fox has to take a stand against a real comedians jab at Bush? Booooring, except maybe to the advertizers on Fox! I’m not watching Fox anymore – I can catch all thier good shows on netflix in a couple of years without the commercials.

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  28. Reposting a thought here from earlier response today.

    How is BLM doing their own outreach even supposed to be believed? Come on folks. They are the FOX, they cannot be beleived they are for the benefit of the hens – really! Seems to me possibly an attempt (possibly a corrupt attempt) to subvert REAL reorgnization attempts (when ones income, and power, depends on an outcome, it is blinded already). But we must all participate, RESPECTFULLY and with FACTS. Identifiy opinon as such.

    I will attempt to participate, and will be respectuful and will ernestly participate as if this will lead to anything, but I’ve been around the block a few times both in government employ and private sector – “rode hard and put up wet” I think is the euphanism!

    I may be a Pollyianna about the erc thing (3rd party – good, in house – bad), but I don’t come about being that after all these years by being stupid either.

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    • I’m not going to play who is more entitled or less to critize an administration…all I know is that the anti-‘bamas are going after Salazar.

      Thank GOD!…or whatever you believe or don’t believe in.

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      • Good point! Agree this looking glass is a good thing – should have happened, say 8 years ago!

        I’m not beholding to any political party (have changed registration and unregistered a few times – voted all parties along the way). I am beholding to a “balanced” governemnt that can compromise and concede and emphathize with all sides, and holds itself accountable to the public in a democratic way. Can’t get that when a faction of one group comes along and not only thinks they are more entitled than others, but puts that into action at the federal level – and what we get are excessive oil spills, dead wildhorses, short cuts, division, crazyness, etc, etc. even unfounded wars against other nations, certainly not democracy. It is not partisan with me, and in USA, at least today, everyone, even a comedian, is allowed free speech of opinion, and where does it say that can’t be about a president, current or past? But lets remember who are the comedians and entertainers and that news foks are supposed to “report” news, unbiased, (how can that be done when they are owned by a corporation that has their own interestes in oil, etc?), not take public positions against a comedian for crying out loud, how is that about the news? Just a bizarre twist and a huge mistake by Fox News Corporation, and if that is really even what happened – I don’t think this will blow over soon and expect more will come out and they might be off the hook after all is done and said.

        The Salazar & Napalitano thing, I am guessing was really just an O’Reilly thing, who happens to be on Fox? Fox Corporation did not actually come out as an organization and post a position paper against either one?

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      • Meant to make the point that O’Reilly, as he identifies himself, is an entertainer, not a news caster. And that just because someone says someting on Fox news or a Fox entertainment program, or whatever station, radio or venue, does not make that an official position of that news corporation or agency.

        Though it is pretty easy to guess the diferences between Fox, MSNBC, PBS, or Link TV as examples. I try to catch them all once in a while, I don’t adhere to any one in particular.

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  29. I just found this article on Salazar. Here’s a quote from it that I particularly like:

    “Maybe Rahm Emmanuel can make a few phone calls and get him a gig as permanent Grand Marshal at Cheyenne Frontier Days. He’s already got the hat.”

    Here’s the link if anyone wants to read:
    http://www.counterpunch.org/doe06042010.html

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  30. I’m reading your posts and I do agree with some of what you are touting as fact.
    However, having worked with some members of the BLM in a horse abuse case here in Western Nebraska a year ago, let me explain something that may interest you to some degree…
    If the BLM investigators had not showed up to get the ball rolling in this case, Law enforcement at the local level would not have had a clue where to begin in processing the evidence for a conviction… Also it should be pointed out that without the wranglers from the BLM stepping up to the plate we would have had a hell of a time processing the over 200 animals we managed to save,,,over 100 horses died at the hands of this individual who took horses in from the BLM…once an animal is sold for a pittance to people taking groups of these horses in, the BLM has no jurisdiction as to inspecting of facilities…
    I think a lot of things do indeed need to be changed in regards to the management of the BLM…However, as long as it is a government agency it is going to be full of things that will be considered mistakes…the salvation of our wild horses lies with the individuals who are willing to finance their existence…Wildlife in other aspects are funded solely by the individuals with an interest in them…the American Sportsman does more to support wildlife than any other group…
    Through licensing and stamp fees, through certain aspects of taxation on firearms, ammo and other outdoor equipment money is set aside for wildlife conservation….
    The same could hold true for the Mustang…anyone that says it is not going to cost us anything to feed or care for the horses on the public domain has probably never cared for a horse…there is no free lunch anywhere in nature….sooner or later it costs the citizens…things like mountain rescue teams and forest fire fighting personal and equipment are funded through taxation…you pay eventually for every animal out there….case in point…any body ever looked it up what the recovery effort per bird is in the case of the Whooping Crane? It has cost the American Taxpayer in excess of 276,000 dollars per bird, a Whooping Crane eats mostly waste grain and invertebrates….
    The horse on the other hand eats an amazing amount of grass as per body weight…A cow and a horse eat roughly the same amount just to survive…
    Cows on Government allotments do bring in needed funds for the BLM…the majority of your wild horse research and limited care come from that resource…
    I’m not advocating complete support of the BLM and all of it’s policies….
    I do however know their are individuals working with the BLM that have an amazing amount of information about our wild horses and these individuals do care about the horses needs and welfare…
    Unfortunately it seems the poor horse has to play second fiddle to everything else…someone show me a sure fire way to get the Mustang the credit it is due…I’ll support any measure that proves it will make funding available for our wild horses….
    Personally this thing is following in the steps of change that OUR MAN Obama promised…don’t fret over the peons in the BLM…send your opinions to OBAMA and tell him your wishes…take control of your government at the upper echelon…OBAMA ain’t doing his job…his patsies are following his lead.
    All Obama is doing is face lifting and posturing…isn’t it about time he does the job he’s paid to do?
    Surely the Government needs to step up and stop the oil gush into our oceans, marshes and beaches, the oil company who created the mess is also just posturing. We want the gush stopped and so far no body is doing anything…Obama wants the oil company to be responsible…when in fact the governemnt safety teams and inspectors never done any enforcement before the mess…You think Obama is going to let our horses take precedence over this nations dependence on oil?
    It wasn’t your horses that put Obama in charge, hell it wasn’t even your vote…it was big money that put Obama in charge….
    Our horses are doomed a lingering death at the hands of OBAMA…he’s the main guy leading the abuse….he ought to be charged or held responsible for some aspect of his job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    JIM

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    • James, thank you for an informative piece with good questions. I appreciate everything you have mentioned and find basis for each – though I think you still have a little more reserach to do. Not so much our blogs, except links that may be provided, but the actual articles and reports both here, The Cloud Foundation, among others. We blog here to support each other and to correct each other so that when we go do our other work it is above reproach – like other blogs, especially news blogs, letters to editors, contacts with congress and media, etc., etc. We are very busy!

      I think we are all calling or writing to Obama and others at least every week, if not every day. So I think that is already covered.

      This project that R.T. is writing about is based in part by interviews within BLM and the employee’s dissatisfaction with the WH & B programs. So perhaps we have been too harsh calling out all BLM employees – I don’t think so – whether you swim in a pot or if you swim in a black kettle, you have to accept the heat and you are responsible for the ethical behavior of your organization. Anyway the break out teams appear to be appointed the exact ideas you have mentioned. I am very encouraged and hopeful that this effort will be positive. There is no one answer from any one wizard. It should be, as this appears to be beginning, a collaborative ongoing work.

      We do vent a lot here, trying to get to the sources of facts and hopefully “someone” , “some group” will come up with what we are all hoping for. And we at times get over stressed. And certainly, if wild horses were designated heritage wildlife that would make them tax payer protected and funded as such – but that would not change the issues of population control – or whether population control by human interference is even needed, and if so, what are the best paths. If the cattle were not there (and they do NOT make money for BLM, they are a negative at BLM, and they suck up 500 million dollars a year out of our economy – see CATO Policy on Welfare Cattle Ranching – I’m not a libertarian but that does not make their evidence faulty), or at least out of wild horse areas, mountain lions were not hunted to such low numbers, we would probably not even be having this conversation.

      Recent and ongoing investigation by ___(?) University (gad I’m getting old – losing recall!) indicates that roundups actually increase breeding, perhaps as much as 197% (anyone – that is what I recall, is that correct?). Please find that report and read it. Now look up “perpetuity” in Wikipedia. Now look up “corruption”. Now tell me that the helicopter roundup crews are not benefiting financially from their work into perpetuity on a project that provides NO real value. We often say that BLM does not know wild horse behavior – but what if they do, and always have known this, what if Cattoor and Cook have always known this. Now look up SCAM ARTISTS!

      The sheer fact that DOI even had the previous DOI engage page and this current action plan on the BLM website that R.T. is writing about – blame Obama? I say good job. Does anyone really think this would have occurred under the previous administration – search for YouTube “Bush, Oil and Mustangs”? Did oil help put Obama in? Yes, as did we with our gas guzzling ways, and they would have been happy with either candidate, their energy plans were very similar. But please don’t tell me they favored Obama over “drill baby drill”. Or that the facts that deregulation and permissiveness, even downright orders from Cheney/Bush to doctor science to favor their interests are to be blamed on Obama. This is not about right or left either, if that’s where you think I’m going – it’s about a faction of group that just went whacko with power. I voted for my share of whackos from both parties over the years, but this last one takes the cake for me. I think Obama has made it as clear as he possibly can that the buck stops with him on the oil spill recovery – how much more responsibility do you want?

      But back to wild horses – I don’t know where you get the idea that anyone here does not appreciate whatever BLM did, that you did, or anyone else involved in the legal case you are talking about? But that is oranges, and current on the range management as well as holding management of wild horses are apples. Was not Meduna a PAID by BLM holder of wild horses after all? Are you telling me he took all of them for nothing? I am still waiting for some facts about this. Where I am going and you probably won’t like this, but if those horses were on their range they would not have been in the hands of Meduna in the first place. And if they starved on the range they would starve as nature intended, the way all wild animals starve in the wild. Is some management needed and what should that be? We really don’t know as BLM has tied this up for so long without any real science, as this erc paper indicates, no one knows. That is all we ask – a moratorium to separate real facts and real science about wild horses and the ecology from the decades old myths perpetrated by cattle interests, energy interestes and BLM themselves. Then solutions created that are not created only to benefit the beaurocracy, roundup companies, the cattle and hunting interests, but also the real welfare of the horses and the real welfare of the ecology.

      Cattle – welfare ranching is not needed – we would not starve to death at all, like I have read on cattle sites, if all cattle were removed from public lands, though that would not even be needed. Cattle on public lands represent only 3% of all cattel grazing in the USA. We are talking about 20 – 30 million acres for the wild horses out of over 350 million acres that cattle already have on our public lands – why the heck do they need more of Calico for example? They have already added more cattle to a range that they said was not sustainable for horses, after they said the removal was not to add more cattle! BUNKUM! Then add the fact that most of that beef is not eaten by us, it is exported for profits according to USDA, and the horses need such a tiny portion, just a PORTION, it just does not make any sense to continue with current broken and ridiculously expensive BLM WH&B management on the wild horses portion of the public lands. It could cost a fraction, maybe zero, and be a great program if done right. Anyone correct me if I am off on these numbers.

      Sorry I went on longer than your post.

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      • Meduna was not a paid contractor by BLM, he bought 3-strikes horses, horses considered unadoptable by BLM(had gone through 3 adoptions, hence the term 3-strikes) you can buy them and horses over 10 by the truckload for $25 each, he was getting his money from other sources. Once you buy those horses there is no other follow up by BLM. I’m not defending them, I’m just stating the facts of the matter. the only guideline on the BOS is a statement that the buyer agrees not to knowingly sell the horse to slaughter. That’s it.

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      • That is how and why the bulk of our native wild mustangs have disappeared to slaughter thanks to the BLM round-ups and the price of $25.00 a piece.  Kill buyers just smack their lips when they can get a load of 3-Strikers and the BLM enables them to butcher and waste away our national treasure.

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      • It is my understanding that there was a business relationship with Meduna and BLM….ergo, why they showed up to remove a few. If there had not been, he could have sold direct tokill (which does happen as RT states all the time).

        And yes RT, the price tag screams sell to slaughter. Who do they think they are kidding/fooling?

        As to the initial question…fact or fiction? Abbey is high order fiction in the genre of nightmare.

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      • I do not beleive Meduna was paid by BLM, i’ll go look at the original documents, but I think BLM got involved when neighbors saw the freeze marks on some of the horses’ necks, will check and get back,
        RT, i was appalled when I got the BOS for my filly, there is NO follow up at all on these horses, at the sale authority site on BLM site, they ask how many you want, they will send you a truckload. where are these horses coming from if not long term holding pens?? so to think BLM has an accurate count of how many are in holding is a joke. Their numbers are so suspect as to be ridiculous.

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      • There were 5 untitled BLM mustangs on that ranch, meaning he had adopted them in the previous year. Now BLM is supposed to check on ALL untitled horses, it says it will, it wants the address to the facility the horse will be at, blah, blah, blah. ANyway, by the time BLM got out there, 4 of them had died and they removed the surviving horse; so let’s not get all euphoric over BLM’s role in this rescue. That honor and gratitude goes to Humanity for Horses, lifesavers horse rescue, the local people and all others who stepped up to help these horses.
        In no document that i read did it say he was a paid BLM contractor, but if he was, even more shame on them for not checking on these horses.
        BLM continued to allow this man to buy and adopt horses and never checked to see how they were doing. he was being funded by outside boarders and donors who assumed their money was being used to care for these horses. whatever it was being used for, it wasn’t on feed.

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      • Also, be perfectly clear that it was Jerry Finch from Habitat for Horses who flew up to investigate.  It was Jerry who went to the Sheriff and was Jerry who chartered the plane that flew over the ranch to document the carnage.  It was NOT the BLM who initiated the rescue, although the BLM did come in and process the horses that were removed from the ranch.

        The initial credit goes to Jerry for taking the first step towards saving the survivors.

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      • Jerry Finch and Habitat for Horses, along with several others and the neighbors are the heros here.

        Again, if the mustangs/buros were clear title to Meduna….BLM would not have shown up. Also remember, I believe HSUS helped…but don’t tell CCF, Wallis and the HSUS haters that.

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      • James Weber was one of the rescuers also, so credit due to him.

        Now, I’m going out on my synical limb – Perhaps BLM was “between roundups” in down time, the only reason they showed up!

        Reality, I’m sure they did a good job once they got there, and I’m sure there are some caring souls at BLM, though misguided. I’m sure we could say the same about Nazis too – just misguided. Ugh!

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    • Roxy, to say a Nazi was “misguided” c’mon,
      RT can you clarify, my understanding is that BLM came and got their untitled horse and that was it, did they actually stick around and help?

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      • Apparently my attempt at being sarcastic did not convey. No, I do not think they were just misguided to say the least.

        My point was if someone works for an agency/corp/gov that has a bad rep, all employees get the bad rep too no matter how good they may be – just the way it is – ignorance of “misguided”, or downright awful, practices is no excuse. Either stay and try to change it and accept the rep along the way, or move on. Joining in because you need a job is understandable and I empathize, however that does not let them off the hook.

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    • It would still cost less to supplemental feed the horses in the wild instead of warehousing them in pens and feeding them year round, I remember you from the DOI comment site, and you are still saying the same thing, that the horses are at fault and need to be taken off the range. there is scientific proof that it’s the cows that are damaging the range. I made this point on the other blog and I reiterate it here. Please do some research.

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      • yes, I am addressing my remarks to jim weber, and also just to clarify about how BLM does not actually sell to slaughter, they just make it real easy for kill buyers to get their hands on a lot of horses.

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      • Jan, Yes, using that “middle man” tactic in BLMs mind wipes them clean of any wrong doing, but just like Cattoors bogus claim of less than .5% deaths, neither are off that hook – they are guilty as heck. I do beleive there have been prosecutions in the past though for direct sales to kill buyers, and if I recall correctly, those BLM employees still work there. James, these are your heros. R.T. has reported on that here somewhere if you want to catch up.

        Actually, it is good that there are the James Webers here occasionally, as it gets us to bring up older news, that others might miss otherwise. I am still holding out hope for James, and cautiousy holding out hope for BLM under this current project. We’ll see.

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  31. Roxy:
    I don’t know that Meduna was paid by the BLM, I do know he paid BLM money to take horses. He was supposed to train and sell those horses to support the other horses he took in, he also took in donations from well intended people and only God knows if it went up his nose or into a vein?
    The fact does remain that inspections are seldom carried out after you buy or take horses from the BLM…that is a faulty situation.
    I do think the horse is worth saving, but, nature is a cruel adversary to the horse…according to some of the topics discussed on the calico roundup, 34 or 35 horses were severely emaciated and died to some credit to the roundup techniques…I don’t know that as fact, it was presented though…
    If there were 34 severely emaciated horses one of several things evidently took place…either the horses were severely line bred and of inferior genetics, maybe the range where those 34 came off of was in bad shape or they suffered from some ailment, that was complicated by the move…we’ll never know….
    As per “welfare ranching at the government expense”, you stated that less than 3% of the cattle being raised for beef production come off of government allotments…3% of the beef industry is quite large!…I personally would get no satisfaction reducing a ranchers livlihood if we forced them out of business!
    Another point worth mentioning in this regards is that cattle and horses do not neccesarily eat the same legumes, sedges and forbes…in fact certain range practices of combining the two together as a planned grazing plan can positively improve range conditions!
    Horses have a tendency to graze a little closer to the ground, in other words they are pretty efficient grass trimmers…horses have rather large teeth on both top and bottom up front to precisely graze closer, whereas cattle only have one set of teeth up front, they can’t graze as close as a horse!
    Horses can spread seed in their droppings, they can actually help propogate native grasses to some extent…cattle on the other hand are ruminants and nothing more than mobile fermentation vats…they can spread some grasses …there are tradeoffs…
    We are seeing a trend in grass fed beef and the range for that program will eventually have to come from somewhere…
    A cold hard fact is that the wild horse doesn’t generate much revenue for the government…if the government could manage to some degree the wild horse herds and make them as solvent as the beef industry, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion…
    I would rather see some really healthy horse herds roaming the public domain, than to be propogating horses of inferior design…there just isn’t much “true” blood out there…consquently with the influx of domestic blood, maybe we have clouded the gene pool and produced to some degree a less than desireable species of wild horse…
    Maybe that is what the thinning of the herds is all about?
    The wild horse has been prosecuted to a terrible level for hundreds if not thousands of years…man took the free spirited horse and made him a beast of burden and larder for the table… that’s gone on since before the advent of the Clovis points that are being dug up on the public domain by archeoligists today…
    Mark my word, the british oil company will go bankrupt before they can fix the leak…the burden for that disaster will eventually fall on the taxpayer…we are already seeing the financial aspects in things like job loss and revenue as a direct result of the inadequate supervision by the government in regards to inspections…sooner than later you and I will pay for this folly at the gas pump…
    Obama’s going to take our money to right a wrong and in the end the horse is going to suffer as a direct result of the trade off…it’s like the old government adage of not too long ago…”The trickle down effect”
    The Government needs charged with the abuse of the horse, but just like Obama’s promises that sure as hell ain’t gonna happen….
    I ain’t no rocket scientist…I’m just an old country boy…I wanna see the wild horse survive…but the government kinda acts like them poor ponies are an expendable item…we’ve had 250 years to help the poor critter out and we still haven’t succeeded…the damned debucle with the wild horse has worked like most government projects…it’s failed!
    I don’t know the answers…I wish I could do more for the plight of the Mustang…
    I’m doing my part in a small measure…you see I have a Momma and her son I rescued from the meduna wreck…the young mare has a white odd marking to her neck called a freeze brand…she comes from a herd in Nevada…to some degree it proves her lineage as a mustang… I’m gonna keep her on all the grass she can eat…I’m gonna give her clean places to run and safe water to drink…I’m gonna offer her and her foal protection from the elements…I’m just like the rest of you…I think she’s worth saving…I feel responsible to some sense.
    This mare was bred on the 3-strikes fiasco…it shouldn’t have happened…he wasn’t supposed to have stud horses….there were 47 stallions from month old colts to 16 year old palominoes! Someone sent him an arabian and he even had a minature….this thing was an accident lookin to happen…kinda like them poor horses out on the public domain……
    Anyway my soap box is gettin slick and I better get off for I bust somethin….
    Jim

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    • James, Just to talk about welfare cattle business first. You need to do more research – again they do NOT MAKE money for BLM – it is a negative and we the taxpayers pick up the tab. R.T. has a couple of articles on that here with links to evidence, along with subsequent links on our blogs, of a direct drain to taxpayers from the Government Accounting Office, if I remember correctly, of 123 million dollars a year. The total drain on our economy for those 3% in direct and indirect cost was over 500 million dollars a year in 1997 (CATO).

      Eventually this program has to stop. It was a good idea during the depression and helped out many families, but has no basis to remain at this time to benefit “for profit” corporations.

      That 3% are mostly large corporate ranchers. I too do not want to see people out of jobs, but, I am, along with 4 million others. Would you not want a cure for cancer because cancer doctors would have to change their specialty? Sorry, your argrument on this count is faulty. And they have and continue to take the land that was supposed to be for the wildhorse “primary” use. Let Ken Salazar buy them land with the money he was going to spend on Salazoo. If there is plenty of land for grazing wild horses in the east and mid west then cattle will do just fine there.

      Now, “trickle down”. I was a staunch Reagan supporter for a time. Even he began to see the error in that before he started losing his faculties, but it was too late. His mentor in that fiasco was Milton Friedman, who I also followed for a time – the now infamous (and decesased) economic advisor to Iceland (or Greenland?) and the cause of their total economic meltdown (and maybe ours and EU too). Yes, agree with you on that – “trickle down” and failure should be in the same dictionary entry.

      I agree BP will never pay what they should. They have reported 3 trillion dollar gain to share holders since the oil spill began though (Obama statement to Gulf people yesterday). So their pockets are still deep. I am starting some research on oil spills. There have apparently been many ocean spills over the years – so I am going out on a limb before my research is complete that oil cleanup is partially part of their business plan. But agree, they will try to get out of it and are already spending millions on PR campaigns about this one. I think that is their mistake, they should, in a perfect world, just take accountability and save their name. But they will just go on under a different name anyway.

      Now, back to wild horses. Where is your link to evidence of their eating habits sir? You have bought into a myth in comparing wild horse to domestic horse eating behaviors. Wild horses, in fact to NOT eat as you have indicated. They roam 10 to 20 miles a day nibbling. Cattle may nibble to, but they just stand around the same areas close to water and destroy everything – this is hard scientific fact and evidence. Many, many published and peer reviewed evidence – just search some more. Plus, cattle are non native, exotic, and invasive. Horses are indegenous native north american wild life (undesputable DAN evidence). So whatever their eating habits, how can a naturally occuring wildlife be considered invasive? Whatever they do is as nature intended in the balance of things. Just becasue they left at one time and now have come back reintroduced as domestic, does not make them less native or subsequently less wildlife.

      Yes there were some thin horses in the Calico roundup. According to the BLM daily reports those were from mostly one area, and also according to the BLM daily reports they were not “severely” emaciated as you indicate. They were 2 on a 5 point scale. And ‘so what’ anyway – why not let them die in the wild? Yes, it is severe, look up “wild”. I accept that – that is natures plan. I do not accept that they are better off being run to death by helicopters. 35 horses on the thin side in winter, when, by the way they are expected to be thin, out of 2000 horses, again ‘so what’? I am still shouting “SHOW ME ALL THE STARVING HORSES” that BLM babble continues to spread, when on their own web page they do not have that evidence. It’s just BLM double “speak”.

      Wild horses generate no money for the government – well that certainly is true under current programs, but neither do your precious cattle, that is a farce that they do. Other wild life do suck up tax dollars as you have indicated, so why not wild horses too? Though, if managed under the right program, most of us do not think that would be true, unless manipulated to be so under a bureaucratic scheme of self interest. Wild horses do, however, bring economic gain to communities from tourism. We just have not tapped into that like we could. Stamps – yes, why not? The Post Office already sends proceeds of bird stamps to bird protection advocacies, dog stamps to benefit rescues, etc., so why not wild horses? Also not tapped into, like Ginger Kathrens says we have our own serengities here ripe for tourism and Madeline Pickens has equated our wilderness and wild horses to rain forests for a tourism draw. Just need to be better marketed. There are many, many fund raising capabilities that have not been tapped into as yet, but will be. Organization is taking place as we speak and the various separate wild horse interests are galvanizing. Much to look forward to.

      Like you my soap box is slipping. More later, I think you are trying to find the truth and will. I actually started out with some of your thinking. It took me a good 6 months of really digging in. Read every word on BLM web site, then every word on The Cloud Foundation, IDA, here, and everywhere I could find. I could in the end come up with only one conclusion.

      Like

    • “Nature is a cruel adversary to the horse.” Actually it is man who is the cruelest adversary to the wild horse. The mustang is one of the most hearty and resilient animals on the range. I don’t recall seeing too many photos of starving Calico horses in this round up and it was the dead of winter.

      Like

  32. I have been calling the White House comment line every day–when I can get through. One of the humane observers asked that we do that and said that we were being heard. I try to keep it short and simple. This is my mantra.

    We want a moratorium on all round-ups
    We want an INDEPENDENT census of all wild horses and burros on public lands and in holding facilities
    We want an INDEPENDENT evaluation and assessment of herd areas and the impact that the wild horses and burros have on those herd areas.
    We want an “in the wild “management program implemented.

    From what I understand, approximately 3/4 of the land that they have a right to be on has been gerrymandered out from under them.
    I don’t think any of us are blaming the rank and file BLM workers for this tangled mess. They are trapped in it as much as the horses–as least as long as they want to keep their jobs. They don’t make the rules. They just have to take orders and do as they are told. Anyone who has worked in government knows how the chain of command works–or doesn’t.

    Like

  33. Maybe that’s what we need–license and stamps for the wild horses BUT control of the money and the use of it need to be kept in our hands.

    Like

  34. Louie…you are a hoot, gift and joy. Thank you.

    James C. Weber….you are not any of the above and you take a ton of space and words attempting to be. I don’t care how you write it, fluff it, buff it, etc. BLM stinks to high heaven. No Sir. The equines of 3 Strikes aren’t better off because of the BLM. The local law enforcement would have done this action, with or without BLM. In truth, they wouldn’t have been at 3 Strikes in the first freaking place without the existence of BLM and the equine on public lands extermination plan.

    Hunters are keepers?????? Good gravy! I don’t think so. That’s like saying all parents know best….better than the government? Certainly. Best for their children?…in a perfect world….in a perfect world. Sadly humans, to include parents are not perfect.

    BLM and DOI are way, way below perfect. They are not even satisfactory.

    Just one pissed-off taxpayer’s opinion….

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    • With all due respect denise, you are entitled to your opinion..but we need to have a ‘big tent”and James is doing his part, we just see things a bit differently. I have good friends on this issue that i differ with and argue points on-we cannot be ‘turning” on each other..Everyone has a perspective to bring to the table..but if we can not iron these things out among ourselves..it will be used to the BLMs advantage, and against the ultimate goal of saving the wild horses..Most cattle ranchers own their own property and run their cattle on it..The allotment system has been horribly abused by some private business owners who are subsidised by all of us..on this point i disagree with james, I live in the west, have worked on ranches in nevada with allotments for cattle, and raise horses on my own land..there is a big difference in the effort you put into your own land as opposed to ‘renting” cheap..and i mean cheap..gov. land as opposed to private land..we could devote blogs to this issue..I am completely against the use of public lands for private commercial use..When it destroys resources, which in turn destroys the animals that live on it, and the people who live around it..Having said that-I believe with unpolitical management..it can and does work.

      Like

      • Just exactly where in my last sentence did you get lost? I told you it was my opinion. Mr. Weber has a situation with facts that leaves a bit to be desired. What don’t you understand?

        Madam/Miss…equines are dying in holding, at slaughterhouses, etc. Mr. Weber has a perception problem. I recognize his right to that perception, but I certainly don’t have to agree or sit passively by and suck it up.

        RT stated that Jerry Finch (as I posted later) was key in the 3 Strikes situation. It sure in the hell wasn’t the stinkin’ BLM that rode to the rescue. Those equines suffered and/or died precisely because of the BLM/DOI.

        Mr Weber has a problem accepting that our government not only makes mistakes, but also may very well be the cause of them. I’m not for the overthrow of government. But I certainly expect better than what we are getting now (SEC, ICE, USDA, etc).

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      • OK Denise, sometimes being polite doesn’t make a point..Let me spell it out..this gentleman put his money where his mouth is and adopted 3 strikes horses..take some vallium and chill-you need to be able to seperate who the enemy is.

        Like

      • Mr. Weber has come on our blogs three times before this time, a more tame and respectful blog. In all those three times he indicted every single one of us on every possible count he could imagine, including, that we, the wild horse advocates, were directly responsible for the 3 Strickes mess and slaughter was the only real solution to the wild horse overpopulation, becasue we, wildhorse advocates, were not willing to adopt every single one, further that BLM are heros and we are the scourge of the earth. I think it is he who needs to either do more research and ask more questions (like he has done here in some places) rather than accuse us (as he has done here again in some places). He is not yet in our tent, he is still an adversary, he has made it painfully clear in the past his disdain and utter disrespect for us and everything we stand for. But he hs come back, he is learning and willing to listen the truth, though it is clear he is not doing his homework, as he admits he is only reading our blogs. I give him credit for coming back more restrained, but he really needs to put on a thinking cap and dig in. It will take quite some time for his stinging accusations and erroneouse facts to fade away in my mind.

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  35. I thought the resolution conflict team did a good job of identifying the issues and the problems..The biggest of those problems is the matter of “trust”..The differing issues regarding the wild horses we could probably all reach a comprise on..I have serious doubts that this is a ‘good faith” attempt to actually resovle these issues with a comprimise..I see it as a ‘good” political move on their part to achieve their goal in september of getting the funding necessary from congress to buy ranches and move horses into “lifetime”prisons..That is why the roundups continue..it will force congresses hand to go along with all those thousands of horses in pens..what else can we do???? Even if it is not in good faith..we will have to work our butts off to clarify our posistion, come to a consences among ourself, and present a solid plan..backed by evidence..The counts herd watch will make this summer are critical to our argument..everything we can muster needs to go into this..money, funding…we have to win this one..i see it as our last stand..but we are going to have to turn this into a win..it is not going to be handed to us by any sense of ‘fairness”.

    Like

    • Sandra, I am still reading through it all. I agree with you, what I have read so far is well presented, no holds barred prepresentation of the issues. You are right on the advice – and I will be checking and rechecking everything I contribute as an individual and will use R.T.s site here as well to check things out. My wish would be for a comment seciton like the DOI dialgue, where we can support, add to, and critique each others posts so that we keep ourselves on target.

      Is this “public outreach” supposed to included groups such as Herd Watch, or TCF, etc? As I read it, that is a separate outreach. But, they should, and hopefully will participate as you say. I think the Moretorium document coud also be utilized to back up the public outcry.

      This will be an interesting project to say the least. I’m hoping to find evidence yet that BLM is not itself handling the responses and what the responses add up to – that would be useless.

      The only disagreement would be to never say “last stand”! Yes, this is an important moment, but not the last. That is the mistake that is too often made about societal gains and was already made with the initial 1971 act. Everyone, including me, thought that was a done deal – I don’t think anyone could have envisioned the debackle and chipping away, but we should have, and should know better in the future.

      Like

      • Last stand is in reference to the longterm holding issue and getting the horses or some of them released back into the wild..In the legal profession it IS actually referred to”possesion is 9/10s of the law”..stopping the gather was a critical point..once they were allowed to be gathered(the judge) you have a legal battle to get them back on the land..and we do not have legal proof..and that takes time to aquire..more than what herd watch gets in numbers..but science that will back us up..we have alot of circumstancial evidence, hard evidence-such as what craigs fly over gives..but we will need collaberating evidence..using the same methods used by the BLM protocols, double counting, photos markings description ect..we have to duplicate their methodology and better by adding the on the ground census the BLM says is too time consuming..when that is all said and done..we take them to court and ask for the proper number to be returned and damages in the form of compensation for the money and man hours that are being expended to aquire this information which is what they are getting paid for and our tax dollars are ALREADY going for..HA!

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      • I did a little contacting to find out the process for finding the stake holders..aside from what was said in the actual document..which was they were given a list of potential stakeholders(presumably by the BLM, since this is who hired them) and it is also my initial feeling that list contained advocates that might be more “receptive” to BLM philosophy…from that point those people recomended other people to talk to..and there you go..approx 30 people were contacted to prepare the original document.My understanding is that those people are being encouraged to participate in the workshop..I would encourage those not contacted to go to the workshop..All perspectives should be heard..even those I might not agree with. I would like to know..was there aything positive that came out of the last workshop? and what were those gains specifically?

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  36. The GOOD thing about these blogs is that we hash out everything–and sometimes have fun doing it. Lord knows, you have to in order to keep going. I think we all respect each other’s opinions, even when we differ. That is how any good coalition operates. We are difinitely all in harmony as to wanting what is best for the horses and burros. This whole ride has been a giant learning curve for me and my teachers have been all of the dynamic people on these blogs.

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  37. I’ll go one step further–any needed corrections in our country are going to come from the core and the hearts of people like the ones that I have come to know since I jumped into this. I survey everything, compare, and listen to those who are smarter and more experienced than I am (and there are many). I step way back and look at the picture as a whole and try to pull all of the loose ends together. I see a pretty cohesive and unified coalition. There are probably a great many others,as well, who are just going at it quietly, and never comment.

    Like

  38. I am sitting here at my desk reading all of the posts and I remembered a song sung by John Denver titiled Eagles and Horses.

    I use this song for our breed demos and had to go and play it while I am typing this.

    If there ever was a much needed anthem for the horses this is it!

    Like

  39. Marge, that is an absolutely wonderful song, an equine rescue near me, who adopted an 8 year old Nevada mustang a few years ago, document his roundup, capture and eventual adoption, and they use this song as the background, the first time i heard it, I just sobbed, I have tears in my eyes right now thinking about it. Yes, that is a good choice for the wild ones.
    ALso, to comment on this BLM site, I just checked it out, it is a drawn out thing, as you have to include in the comment section, which part of the proposal you are commenting about. they are making sure you are reading this proposal.

    Like

  40. THREE STRIKE HORSE-THIS POSTED ON THE CLOUD FOUNDATION WEBSITE

    ’93 BLM Mustang gather from Nevada is in danger of shipping to slaughter this weekend. Oh wait, he can’t be headed to slaughter since the BLM claims no BLM mustangs go to slaughter! Kill broker wants $700. I have post on my site (link below) and there is more info on the Another Chance 4 Horses website as well. Please help, we are looking for someone to buy, help donate for him, and/or provide a home offer.

    http://www.4wildhorses.com/horses/blog/Wild-Free-Roaming-Horse-Now-Owned-by-Broker-Who-Ships-to-Slaughter.aspx

    Like

    • Louie, click on this link that was in the information/link you provided:
      http://www.ac4h.com/BrokerOwnedProgram.htm

      On the Broker Owned Horses link of the Another Chance for Horses home page, there are seven pictures of him (sweet boy!) and next to that, it says in red “I have a home, thank you” and his status is “P” for pending and the name Deborah, which is the name of his adopter I think. Absolutely double-check me, though. I don’t want to see him going to slaughter, or any of them for that matter, but if he isn’t “SAFE” yet I don’t want to give everybody the impression that he is.

      Like

    • This blm freezebranded 17? year old (Nevada) sweet gelding did get a good home.
      Look at his pictures and his number is listed. The blm should be ashamed they don’t take back mustangs they adopted out!! and whoever owned that sweet horse then dumped him at auction should be ashamed aswell!

      Thank God there are good rescues like AC4H who take the time to list horses owned by the meatmen of the world.

      Like

  41. Oh my. That site brought both deep sorrow to my soul and hopefullness from the better endings. This is how I feel everytime I go to the pound. Now off to cry my eyes out!

    I did hear he was adopted, but better to keep checking.

    Like

    • Louie, thank you for bringing him to everyone’s attention. I have sent Another Chance for Horses an email to verify that he does have a home, like Roxy suggested, it’s better to check. Will let you guys know the minute I hear back from them.

      Like

      • Louie, Roxy, everybody: Just got a reply from Lori at Another Chance for Horses and it is confirmed – the little mustang gelding does indeed have a home and is safe!!! Some great news for our Sunday morning.

        Like

  42. The land I lease was part of an army airbase during WW2. This is government owned land, leased and operated to the local municipality here for 1$. I lease it from the municipality, they in turn have NRCS range specialist monitor and recommend grazing practices..The state game commission allows public access for hunting after the cattle come off. It’s pretty simple and is a joint venture between 3 seperate government agencies setting down the ground rules…there is no cost to any entity other than the material used for upkeep of the fences and windmill.
    I’d be interested in seeing a BLM lease agreement on an allotment. I can’t imagine there not being rules as far as care of the land and how many animal units are allowed and what time allocations are as to what mths the grazing can take place.
    If those practices aren’t governed on the public domain they should be implemented…
    I imagine there are guidlines and undoubtedly there are enforcement policies in practice….
    Those policies and enforcement should prevent land abuse…that is why I question the claims the cattle are ruining the range…
    It might also be brought to mind that the wild horses and domestic cattle sharing those allotments have a bearing on conditions as they exist.
    I’m just reading into the possibilities as to how I see them fitting into the scenario here…
    I also imagine unless they are communal allotments that they are fenced to some degree…
    Like I said earlier I ain’t too old to learn… Mr. Fitch in all his writing hasn’t told me anything as to how conditions really exist…I feel he’s making assumptions from airplane rides and not dealing from fact that boots on the ground make…
    So before I take a guys word on conditions as he interprets them, I want to see proof in fact and not in opinion…
    You all don’t take a lot of what I have to say at face value, so is it wrong for me to assume what this guy writes about are fact?
    His interpretation as to how things went down on the 3 strikes fiasco don’t match to what I saw for 24 grueling days and what the local constalbury has told me…my boots were on the ground…The facts as I witnessed don’t match what he’s saying in this case, so naturally I’m questioning his facts as they apply to what he sees happening on the range from the side window and windshield of an airplane.

    Even in battle, photo recon doesn’t always set the rules or stage as compared to what the troops on the ground see…
    If you fly over the 3 strikes ranch today it looks like an oasis…yet according to neighbors the present vegetation is mostly weeds on the severely denuded ground conditions as we saw them at the time of this wreck.
    Just a case in point here…
    Jim

    Like

    • Mr. Weber

      For your information, I have never purported to being at 3-Strikes when the rescue occurred, everyone is aware of that. I was half way around the world in Cabinda, Angola Western Africa with my next stop being Alaska, USA. I was tied up with business commitments and could not come and relieve Jerry, something that tore me to pieces. But I WAS in voice contact with Jerry who WAS there and he WAS the first one to go to the Sheriff long before the BLM arrived and he WAS the one who chartered the plane to make the first fly-over. You don’t have to know too much about grass when you see piles of bleached white horse bones stacked all over, that is sort of a no-brainer that something is very seriously wrong.

      The information that you see, here, comes from Jerry and the good neighbor Vicki, have you seen her article and “on the ground pictures” posted here?

      I have written about the lying, conniving, horse killing fraud that is Jason Meduna and I have not given any personal eye witness accounts. If there is one thing that you will find here it will be the truth as best we know it.

      You have publicly questioned my integrity and as a man, that is the one true value that I hold on to with a vengeance, so consider yourself on notice. You have been allowed to ramble and voice all of your opinions, whether based on valid evidence or not. This entire group has been tolerant of your anti-mustang comments and your limited, global knowledge of what is really going on in the big scheme of things. It has been our hope that you will see the light and learn that our national icons are a native species to the land and that in the real world, not Meduna’s, they do quite well for themselves without invasive interference.

      So to put it in your words, “everyone has earlobes and butt cheeks” but for some…they get lost in the middle, don’t let that be you.

      Get your facts straight.

      Like

      • everyone did good for those meduna killed/almost killed horses. Do think the man himself called the sheriff first, when he was acusing the neighbor of horse thieft. ‘funny’ that a freezebranded mustang ‘made’ meduna call the law on himself- hehe.

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    • James, rather than spend pages telling you what I know -personally- about cattle allotment abuse in the west-let me refer you to Western watersheds Project homepage..there you can click on their “many sucessful federal lawsuits won” against the BLM for the destruction of watersheds in allotments grazed by cattle..Evidence is continually presented in a court of law-where violations have occured..scientific evidence-not opinion..I spent 1 whole night just reading the lawsuits from 2005..It was worth the effort..If unbiased facts won’t sway you..you are on your own..but you did say you ain’t too old to learn..so the ball is in your court..go for it James!

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  43. When they stop the round-ups and park that helicopter is when I will be willing to take any statements concerning direction change seriously. They are still planning to use the same stock contractor that they used for the Calico round-up.
    Just a reminder–there are two more slated round-ups to comment on by June 18–this is one of them. Info on that can be found on the Mustang Project’s blog

    BLM Seeks Public Comment on Moriah Herd Area Wild Horse Gather (05-14-2010)

    The other is the Twin Peaks herd management area–that one can be found on the Cloud Foundation website.

    Like

    • Thank you for posting. I wish helicopters and any aircraft was forever not allowed for round-ups. Utah is where that helicoptor crew ’roundup inc’ calls home. Utah has a history of running horses with aircraft. News stories from 20? years ago is where they used aircraft to run wild horses off cliffs or ran them for 40/50 miles 😦

      I am sure other wild life is very upset for miles around when the blm is rounding up the horses. I even read reports on herds of big horn sheep that were very sick in winter. last winter? and I think these sick sheep were in an area the blm was winter running horses.

      Those aircraft cowboys need to hang-up their hats.. it is not right to use aircraft with animals.

      Like

  44. Click to access KWFinalPlan.pdf

    Is it just me, I find the way they have comments set-up almost impossible to deal with!!

    I’m not a computer wiz and I am sure many who wish to comment are not computer wizzies either.

    I want to comment on all their questions and the system seems way to hard to use. Hard to read, and what the heck are they talking about uploading comments and scrolling back.

    It is going to take days to finish answering their questions and I have a full time job.

    I think this is more of the same from the BLM, now they can say..well we asked for comments and very few commented. 😦

    Like

  45. They need to send those helicopters to places where they are really needed. They’re meant for rescue, not round-ups.
    That is probably where a hugh chunk of the money spent on those round-ups disappears
    $1.3 million on the Calico roundup–just so far
    No wonder they don’t want the round-ups stopped.

    Like

    • The Cattoors are multimillionaires thanks to your tax dollars.  They spend that money on lawyers to challenge honest reporters and subvert the freedom of the press/First Amendment. 

      You have not “arrived” as an active equine advocate writer until you have recieved a threat letter from the Cattoor’s legal henchmen and ole Dave Cattoor, an approved chopper contractor of choice, plea bargained a guilty plea for selling wild mustangs to slaughter, ain’t that sweet.  Speaks volumes to the preferred selection process of the BLM and DOI. 

      That would NEVER fly in the private sector.

      Like

      • RT that’s part of what absolutely fries me, if any of us treated our personal horses as are the Fallon horses, we would have multiple arrest warrants out for us; when you go to adopt a mustang you have to practically sign in blood about your facilities and the care they’ll receive…. YET, BLM continues to hire convicted animal abusers, give them a GREAT living at OUR expense, and treat captured mustangs any way they want. What is the chain of command out west, where can we go to start the process to force BLM to obey the laws of the land?????

        Like

    • EXACTLY!

      Now we have to watch the surfacing University evidence that the roundups actually increase breeding. The word “perpetuity” comes to my mind –

      Excerpts from Wikipedia: “Perpetuity…a stream of cash payments that continues forever…there is no present value for the principal…”

      The next thing that comes to mind – “SCAM: A confidence trick or confidence game (also known as a bunko, con, flim flam, gaffle, grift, hustle, scam, scheme, swindle or bamboozle) is an attempt to defraud a person or group by gaining their confidence. The victim is known as the mark, the trickster is called a confidence man, con man, confidence trickster, or con artist, and any accomplices are known as shills. Confidence men or women exploit human characteristics such as greed and dishonesty, and have victimized individuals from all walks of life.”

      I would make one correction – “…not limited to only to greed and dishonesty, but also tapping into caring and compassion and all human characteristics, and have victimized individuals from all walks of life, including entire taxpayer groups.”

      Not accusing anyone, just saying…

      Like

  46. Laura, I pulled up the link and this is the first thing I noticed

    THIS DOCUMENT IS NOT ADOPTED OR ENDORSED BY
    THE BLM OR THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR

    Like

    • Louie, that was explained to me so that this program remains unbiased by BLM. I’m skeptical. While at the same time optomistic. I have to be.

      I mean, we have to participate. And we have to make sure our hearts and opinions are expressed as such. We need to make every attempt to fill this project with facts, and punch holes in so called facts that BLM has spread – all we need is the benefit of doubt. The document makes it very clear that our opinions are important so I say run with it. This 3rd party Kerns and ___(?) have read our blogs and have given us positive status. If it turns out bad we’ll deal with that. But it is going forward nun the less, there is no stopping it, and I may be wrong, but not participating will get what? I see no choice but to go in ernest consideration that this is a valid project. And, unlike here where no holds are barred and we bank on each others critiques to help us grow, we need to be very, very careful and on target, as much links to evidence in hand as possible to back us up.

      Like

  47. Also, this is in the footnotes

    12 S. Rep. No. 111‐38 requires the BLM to prepare a long‐term plan for management of wild horses and burros by
    September 30, 2010

    Like

  48. Here is some more news to read:

    http://www.rgj.com/article/20100531/NEWS/5310321/1321/news

    New York Times Article from AP – http://ymix.com/175

    Wild horse sanctuary proposed north of Gerlach | rgjcom | The Reno …

    Wild Horses and BLM’s promise of a new day dawning

    Here’s more info from Carrol!

    The California Desert District Advisory Council will be meeting June 18 at Ridgecrest. In light of Feinstein’s recent California Desert Protection Act ( S. 2921), which requires amendments to Regional Management Plans throughout all western states, this could be of great importance. There are 7 HMA’s within the boundaries of this council. Policies negatively effecting our wild herds are often hidden in these changes.

    DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

    Bureau of Land Management

    [LLCAD01000 L12200000.AL 0000]

    Meeting of the California Desert District Advisory Council SUMMARY: Notice is hereby given, in accordance with Public Laws 92-463 and 94-579, that the California Desert District Advisory Council to the Bureau of Land Management, U.S. Department of the Interior, will participate in a field tour of BLM-administered public lands on Friday, June 18, 2010, from 8 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. and will meet in formal session on Saturday, June 19, 2010, from 8 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. at the Heritage Inn and Suites, 1050 N. Norma St., Ridgecrest, California.

    Agenda topics will include updates by Council members and reports from the BLM District Manager and five field office managers. Final agenda items, including details of the field tour, will be posted on the BLM California state Web site at http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/info/rac/dac.html

    SUPPLEMENTARYINFORMATION: All Desert District Advisory Council meetings are open to the public. Public comment for items not on the agenda will be scheduled at the beginning of the meeting Saturday morning. Time for public comment may be made available by the Council Chairman during the presentation of various agenda items, and is scheduled at the end of the meeting for topics not on the agenda. While the Saturday meeting is tentatively scheduled from 8 a.m. to 4:30 p.m., the meeting could conclude prior to 4:30 p.m. should the Council conclude its presentations and discussions. Therefore, members of the public interested in a particular agenda item or discussion should schedule their arrival accordingly. Written comments may be filed in advance of the meeting for the California Desert BILLING CODE 4310-40-P

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  49. Marge, thank you for posting this and letting everyone know. I think this is where some of the attacks on the wild burros come from. They are in the way of some land development schemes. Lots of big money to made there. I have a copy in my files that really nailed that down.

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  50. Roxy, I agree. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Just be very cautious. I always choose to err on the side of caution. Don’t give anything that can be used against you.

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    • Louie, Yes, I beleive that you can. I recall seeing a dowloadable PDF available. I don’t really know the inner operation yet, I will start on it tomorrow. It has been blogged already that it may take an advanced degree to operate it though – I will trudge onward anyway – no one said it would be easy.

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  51. I, too, am glad to see that a third party has read the blogs. I would be interested in knowing which blogs. The ones that I read are right on target and there is a wealth of shared knowledge and experience there. There are also some wonderful websites that provide real, in-depth information, but there isn’t as much dialog. Perhaps that is because the websites are harder to access. I can never figure out why everyone goes to one site or the other. Right now, the other blogs are pretty quiet. My guess is that many of the main contributors are out in the field counting wild horses and burros. Herd Watch is up and going.

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  52. It does seem that a class action lawsuit could be filed against any and all stock contractors.
    Wasn’t the case dismissed because of failure to show loss due to damages?
    Perhaps the case was filed against the wrong party.
    The humane observer reports have extensive documentation of neglect and damage.

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  53. Please sign the petition!

    Australia’s Wild Horses in trouble!

    Now the 5,000 horses at Lake Gregory have been issued a death sentence by the WA Department of Regional Development and Land who say they are causing ‘unacceptable environmental damage’. The lake that these horses graze around is over 100 Km in circumference, and the entire area the horses inhabit is a huge 400,000 hectares. The Department has no issue with the 5,000 cattle grazing on the same property remaining.

    http://www.animalsaustralia.org/take_action/save-kimberleys-wild-horses/

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    • I had heard somewhere that the cull was put on hold. Is this not true or was it a different area they were speaking about. Of course if Australia horse management is like US horse management they probably put it on hold for a full 5 minutes.

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      • what I read is the australian ‘humane society’ has some oversight of the horse round-ups in Australia. They work with the Gov. in some ways. (wish hsus would have oversite of the BLM)

        Of course horses are not native to australia and this herd was said to be started by some released arabian horses. Arabs of such quality that some in the 50s were captured and shipped to the middle east. Australia has a big slaughter industry and I think ships a lot of meat out to the horse eaters.

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  54. Let’s all get our letters to Gene Sedlitz and ask for the Calico prisoners to be released and pass it on so we get as many writing as possible. He needs to get more letters than Santa.

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    • 10-4 Louie, let’s stay focused and get this accomplished, ASAP

      Be sure to copy all the other members of the BLM management team as indicated in Craigs letter and in Laura Leigh’s example on her blog.  They need to be involved and also see that there is an out pouring of concern on this topic.

      Let’s get after it.

      R.T. Fitch Author – “Straight from the Horse’s Heart” The Force of the Horse®, LLC 1-800-974-FOTH http://www.rtfitch.com http://www.sfthh.com

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  55. This is posted on the Mustang Project’s blog

    The BLM Utah will host a public hearing at the West Desert District Office to discuss the use of helicopters and motorized vehicles in the management of wild horses and burros on Utah’s public lands. The hearing will be held on, June 9 at 6:30 p.m., at 2370 South 2300 West, Salt Lake City, Utah. An annual public hearing for comments on this issue is required by federal regulation. The Salt Lake City hearing will be the only one held this year in Utah. For additional information about the upcoming public hearing contact Jared Redington at (801) 561-4632, or the BLM Utah State Office at (801) 539-4057. For information on future wild horse and burro adoptions, visit http://www.ut.blm.gov , or contact the Delta Wild Horse and Burro Facility 435-864-4068, 600 N. 350 W., Delta, Utah, or the Salt Lake Wild Horse and Burro Center 877-224-3956, 8605 W. 12600 S., Herriman, Utah.

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  56. I am not pro-slaughter!…If I was I could have taken the 6 horses I did adopt and sell them and no one would be the wiser!…Horse meat is so tainted(domestic) that it is unfit for consumption due to wormers and other meds. I have eaten a lot of wild animals, I could never eat a horse…as a young man working the different ranches I rode many horses, they were my livlihood and allowed me to make money…I have good and bad memories about every horse I ever rode……
    The facts i know and witnessed at the 3-strikes starvation campaign are unpardonable…Jery Finch did do a fantastic job…but so did volunteers from HSUS…as for the law enforcement proceedings….you need to talk to John Edens the Morrill County Sherrif and get the facts….simply ask him what was the biggest help in securing evidence and to whose direction he went….Jerry offered a great deal…but it was the investegator named Perry who in my humble opinion got things rolling….you have no idea how mountainous the evidence pile was in this case….
    The failed situation at 3-strikes had nothing to do with the BLM other than they should have never allowed Meduna to take so many danged horses!…they needed a place to go with horses, they called around and Meduna said he had room…they took it as fact and sent him wayyyy too many horses….I think that was unpardonable, but they took the easy way out in this instance and let him have as many as he wanted….
    This clown meduna had a website and a “cowboys log” about all the work he was doing….if you looked at his website as many did you would have thought he was the “horse Whispereer incarnate….he didn’t have one claim to any of his knowledge….
    My experience with horse rescues is some what limited, I have been in on one…and we saved 215 horses out of 317 the guy was responsible for….
    I’d say I have some limited knowledge….more than some and a hell of a lot less than others….
    Privatization of the horse herds may be their only hope…the stinking government can’t handle this issue….
    I done my part for this rescue..I hope I never have to ever see another starving horse…Jerry Finch probably told me the best advice I can carry with that statement….jerry said …Jim…it’ll happpen again…you’ll drop what your doing and go…cuz after this episode that’s the kind of guy you are…
    I hold Jerry as an absolute savior for the horses we worked side by side with for 24 lousey, dirty, heart breakin days…we never agreed one hundred percentt on every topic. but we worked together for one thing aand that was to get them horses off that stinkin sandpile, get em fed and off to new homes….that is what we accomplished….period….
    my last staement is fact…I will not render further opinion…but accept this…
    would anyone work for 24 days saving them horses only to get them slaughtered?….NO I did not….
    Jerry convinced me in minute detail that slaughter of horses is wrong…when he described how horses are macheted to death by severing their spinal chords he had tears in his eyes…when he was done talking I was a changed man…cuz by Gawd I had tears in my eyes also….
    Your horses and My horses are worth saving…that i believe…but it’s gonna be a hard row to hoe…good luck…maybe I don’t deserve to be part of the effort….I see where I may not be welcomed by some….but I have spoke the truth when I say I care….
    Jim Weber
    cell number 308-76–1983 any freakin time!

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  57. My government lease is part of a lease that includes 6000 acres that are leased out. We have an animal unit limit per lease. It is overseen by the Natural Resources department and the game and parks department.
    That is why I cannot imagine the government allotment leases on our public land would have no conditions of lease.
    Also you know a person can take any study and compare it to another and glean just what he wants to hear or use from it…
    There are also government agencies within the government that oversee a lot of the policies…I.E. government over sight commitees…wouldn’t it be prudent then that if there are violations and proof of wrongdoing…abuse, neglect etc. that all the allegations you are proposing against the BLM would have to be investegated?…your asking me to believe that this abuse and neglect is hidden from within the government….I don’t believe for one minute either political party representing “we the people”would allow the abuse to continue”… surely within the walls of government there is one honest man or woman who has a sense of responsibility…if our senators and congressmen aren’t looking into the allegations than our government is guilty of abuse of these horses, what form of government are we being led by?
    Some group of people elected Obama to be our president…I’ll go on record and admit I never voted for him, nor do I support him.through any form of contributions….the people who elected this clown are the same people neglecting your and my horses then if they elected him….by right of electorial count this guy is our leader and evidently by that action is why we are in the trouble we are today…or is that to simple to conclude?
    I’m not here to cause dissention, I merely bring up different aspects and points of view so you can educate me….
    I know what i know about the wild horse, cattle and feeding simply because I work in the lifestyle of a rancher and someone close to the land…I am a landowner and conservationist and work a great deal towards habitat improvement for wild animals on my property I have used public funding through the USDA…USFWS..NGAPC and DEQ and UsACOE…
    I own a few mustangs and I observe them in comparison to the cattle we raise and take in….while my studies of the habits of mustangs only includes the ones within the confines of our fences, I think it is paramount to consider this….
    These horses are highly self sufficient, they have an uncanny sense of trust, they are highly blessed with intellegence, and they have a strong will to face adversity…
    they do differ from domestic horses…I see that evidence every day….but…they are just horses…and like most horses they want to eat…if range conditions are right, if they have been imprinted to their surroundings they will stay in one area as long as it will support them…a horse requires roughly the same amount of feed stuff as a cow…somewhere between 25-35 lbs of feed per day…to get that amount of needed nutrition they may eat 50 lbs of matter per day…not every blade of grass, or for that matter not every mouthful is a balanced supply….ask any animal nutritionist if that is not fact…
    I only make my statements as to what I have observed…no science to it, just observation….
    my horses will eat during cold weather what I put in front of them, they have eaten as much as 60 lbs of hay in a day per head….if given free choice tell me this then…..how much forage will they eat in a day?…how much will they inadvertently waste and how much ground will they damage by doing so?
    I merely ask these questions because I want to know….
    Here a mare and foal can survive all summer on 25 acres and look tick fat and shiny.
    They get a balanced grain ration and fresh water and mineral supplementation…
    In the wild they may need as much as 65 acres to do the same….if given a choice a wild horse will be in good body condition…that just stands to reason…..
    that is all I am basing my questions on in this roundup situation…the death loss makes no sense unless they were severely abused by the roundup methods…they may have been severely handicapped by lack of feed, or they had an ailment….I’m just afraid someone jumped to the conclusion the horses died because someone witnessed a helicoptor engaged in the roundup and drew the wrong conclusion….is it a sin to differ?
    I realize you deem yourselves a select group…if all you want to hear is based on one mind set, then your right I probably don’t belong here…but….I’m of the opinion this is a free society and as of yet it still calls itself a democracy….even if I have a different opinion then…even if I don’t take all the information as fact…that is my individual right as a free citezen….I’ll evidently have to remove myself from your group if you can’t accept it.
    Jim

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  58. I backed down and have done some research on Salazar…I admit I was giving the guy the benefit of the doubt.
    I have to be honest and admit after reading what i did and talking to people who have known this guy that in fact he is just a tad shady beyond belief. There I stand corrected!
    As to grazing habits of cattle verses horses, it stands to simple logic that horses do graze in a more intensive manner to cattle…consider that horses have teeth…rather large ones in fact on both top and bottom…compare that to what a beef has inside it’s mouth and you’ll see the horse is quite capable of grazing closer to the ground.
    Also please consider the looks of a horses droppings compared to that of beef and you see a lot more evidence of which animal gets the most from it’s eating habits…horses do spread a lot more viable seed on the ground than do cattle simply because one is a segmented stomached fermentation vat…a cow eats it’s food in seperate ways than a horse ..once in the grazing process and once in the “cud” stage where it upchucks a bolus of somewhat limited digestion and passes it into another chamber where the matter is fermented and broken down and absorbed and yet passed to another chamber and finally to the gut where more digestion takes place….Highly efficient….you be the judge….evidently scientific fact due to the wider use of bovine products than horse meat…..The cow does your horse a favor…
    The two animals can exist on the same range conditions, one will travel and graze on a basis where it will find the choicest grass…that animal is built for travel…(horse)..
    the other animal is not built for long travel…bulky heavy body…longer hair and thicker hide…heavy short bones…little leg…built up body with heavy bone…( the cow)…
    horses travel long distances because they can and are always on the move…cattle will graze in one area for a period and move on…I just say what i do through observation….in the pasture i rent are 32 pairs of momma cows and 2 bulls, they are on the move quite a bit…never in one spot if the grass doesn’t hold out…they also search the choicest food matter for their intensive use…cattle will hold up on hot days sometimes near water holes and other times in groups huddled against flies and the like….I’ve seen horses do the same…
    cattle and horses will graze together by instinct due to herd security…these are just observations based on fact by practically living with the two distinctly different animals my life thus far from age 9 to present…(58) not all fun years.

    I do admit to not knowing all the facts through research… I am a hunter, a guide and an observer of nature…consequently…I base my opinion on what I see…it doesn’t matter that what I say isn’t absorbed as fact….but let me add this…I know what I know due to having worked my entire life in the outdoors…

    I also tout the fact as pure science that hunters do indeed add more to the salvation to the wildlife by their activities…they do indeed help out in the natural selection of the species they persue…they keep the herds in check which consequently improves range and forage conditions…through their procurement of licensing fees and ammo sales and outdoor equipment their money goes to wildlife habitat, research and law enforcement.
    If it wasn’t for the hunter paying out through the nose a lot of wildlife would be in jeapordy because we couldn’t keep all the horses cows and wildlife in existence…the range will only support so much activity…is it a perfect solution…hell no…it works though…people are employed due to it, some people exist due to it and a lot of wildlife benefits…

    we have more deer and antelope, elk, bighorn sheep, waterfowl and other wildlife in this area than we did during the days of the Oregon trail…no one has to starve in this country if they became more self sufficient….That’s just fact…
    We wiped out the bison because of the migration of people across this continent and through pure greed…the benefit to that?…well simply stated…I’d rather see a deer pooping in my front yard than I would a 800lb contankerous bull buffalo intent on wreaking havoc on my fences…how many more traffic versus wildlife accidents would we be having if they were allowed to roam freely?…where would you be eating and what would be eating if the buffalo herds hadn’t been checked?…we almost wiped them out…if it hadn’t been for a few conscientious ranchers intent on saving some remenant stock, we wouldn’t have the buffalo to observe today… that was a conservation initiative drawn up by ranchers who cared and were ashamed of what the railroads and hide buyers did to wipe em out….evidently at that time society here was greedy for the supply of meat and robes…sound familiar?

    You do sound like your anti-ranching and anti farming in your insinuation everything needs to go back to the natural course of things….we couldn’t simply exist as a society if there wasn’t room for the human race…we are even over breeding our own species….something will have to die to make that room….that doesn’t mean I think the horse needs to go…it means we either all become veggies if we allow the animals to over flourish or we die as a result of not being able to feed the world…that’s science in itself and fact….
    I’m for saving the horse…I’ve done the very thing…but I’m responsible enough and smart enough to figure out you can’t have it all…
    I’d rather see some horses in the wild than none at all…if we allow the horse to over populate something else vanishes…the same is true of all animals as long as there is a need for man to flourish…
    I’m supporting your cause, but not every horse is going to make it…isn’t the responsible thing than to improve what we are left with..let them remain in controlled numbers…
    The only way to do it is through wise management and money…and not every tax payer out there is going to want to donate to our cause through his money…you want to save the horse?…do it through donation and let’s find a happy medium…
    I’ll do my best to be a little more observant and support this cause…if you’ll be a little more tolerant and become somewhat more responsible for the horse through your donations…the government isn’t going to save the horse…the people who want the horse are the responsible party.
    In summation?…Salazar and Obama can’t save the horse, only we can through privatization of the horse herds without government intervention…that probably means we can’t depend on the public domain to do so…
    Buy up the range from the governemnt…they’ll sell it to us for what they can get through oil drilling,,,ranching allotments, and wildlife funding….we are going to lose if we depend on the governemnt…cuz they are going to sell it to the highest bidder….
    I realize there is already land out there set aside for the horse….but your government is even taking away your rights to fair access and use….your government is telling you they don’t care for the horse….take control and buy it back.
    Salazar is telling you and so is Obama through their inaction on our cause, that they don’t give a damn….
    My humble opinion….
    Jim

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    • James, I am seeing some truth in your statement about the horses being privatized, the man who began the WIld Horse Sanctuary believes the same, that the horses will survive on private land/sanctuaries, not out west. There are a few herds that will remain wild, but I do feel that the hope for many is to get land somewhere and buy the horses outright. I donate to as many private sanctuaries as I can afford. I am getting to the point that I think the money spent on lawsuits, etc, would be better spent getting some land together somewhere and getting as many horses as that land is able to support on it.

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  59. Sorry James, I do not agree with giving donations to keep the native wild horses on the range. I already donate to America and the wildlife therein–my taxes. I vehemently do not support roads through wilderness areas–by your reckoning do only those that want those roads support them through donations? We do not get to pick and chose where our tax dollars are spent–to do so would be to create a really dangerous precedent and is truly AGAINST our stand on the native wild horses being a national treasure just as thousands of other species of native wildlife.

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  60. Sorry James, I do not agree that there is any reason why those who support the lives of the native wild horse should pay for this natural treasure with donations. I donate every day–taxes. I vehemently disagree with roads through wilderness area–so should only those who wish these roads pay for them with donations? We do not pick and chose where our tax dollars are spent, to do so would create a dangerous precedent. My tax dollars do support thousands of wilderness areas and thousands of species of native wildlife to start singling out the native wild horse for addtional voluntary financial support from those who are aware of the unjustifiable persecution of this national treasure would also create a dangerous precedent.

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  61. Oops, sorry I didn’t think my first comment appeared so I reposted but I see both comments appeared. Oops

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  62. “The only way to do it is through wise management and money…and not every tax payer out there is going to want to donate to our cause through his money…you want to save the horse?…do it through donation and let’s find a happy medium…”

    Don’t your think $40 million dollars that we the taxpapers are paying is enough?

    One hell’va donation to have to pay to a bunch of friggin idiots!

    MargeI

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    • $40 million, try adding another $500 million a year in direct and indirect taxpayer cost to welfare ranching that is the greatest direct cause of removing the horses.

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  63. Roxy:
    I have never attacked you in any durrogatory manner…I even respect Mr. Fitch’s opinions, if I’m to believe all that was said, I wouldn’t be an individual with my own opinions….I didn’t mean to embarrass or be so critical of his statements and I do admit I may have sounded pretty cruel to his intentions…his veiw and my veiw differ dramatically in how things went down at 3-Strikes here in nebraska….I do know the difference between he and Mr. Jerry Finch, only because I worked hard with and for Jerry Finch during our rescue attempt with over 100 other people involved on the ground.
    I am not in any way for the slaughter of any horse…I will admit that in the past I used the sale barns to get rid of horses I was either through with or dissapointed in…I did ask on occassion that some of the horses we used to sell be committed to the rendering plants simply because I felt they were not safe to ride or had such bad habits I was afraid someone else would get hurt…That was a right I felt I had…I was guilty of passing on judgement due to my experience with such horses….
    After having worked very hard and dillegently in the process of saving over 200 horses in the before mentioned rescue attempt…I am a leapard who has indeed changed his spots on horse issues…
    As mentioned previously I am of the opinion no horse should have to suffer the agonizing process of starvation or mistreatment…I also do not think any horse wild or domestic is a safe animal to eat for human consumption…I oppose horse slaughter plants…I am also aware that in a three state area near this place I call home, that there is a movement for those states to pass referendums to include the legal building of slaughter plants for the killing of horses for human use… I wrote letters in defense of the horse to three governors…with no result…my opinion went unheard and made very little difference…while those people may not know me personally they do know where I stand on horse slaughter…they know I am vehementally opposed to the action…in my own mind I sleep better knowing I shared my opinion and did not rest on my laurels in anticipation of the facts…horse slaughter is not right….
    I put a 28 year old mare down last winter that raised my kids and I worked 4 hrs…committing her to a grave in frozen ground…I cried and was terribly sorry she had one bad day in 28 years, but I did do the right thing..it should have been easier to commit her to the rendering plants but she deserved much more and she deserved some dignity to her passing…so I do indeed stand in opposition to slaughter and I do want to ask Mr. Fitch, here to publicaly to accept my apology for questioning his reasoning…and accept my apology if I sounded too derrogatory…I also ask for patience while I try to write in words what I think…sometimes my mouth gets ahead of my thoughts and I write it down way too fast…emotions run high in this topic…but…there are other opinions, I don’t ask for acceptance of my statements as facts to everytone, they are just opinions..there is the other side and they are of the right to share them…that is the one thing that makes this country great…we are all endowed by the creator with unalienanble rights…at least that is what I think and why I did serve honorably in it’s service for 12 years…pardon me for using my right to free speech on any subject…I do listen…
    If I offended it wasn’t intended…I won’t share any opinions here any more but just listen to all that is said…your all doing a grand job of protecting the horse in words, but in over 100 years no one has come up with a humane solution ,.that’s what is happening today…all kinds of experts with advise that never helped the horse out…keep up the good fight…maybe in 100 years a few horses will remain in the wild, I certainly hope so…my battle for the horses only lasted for 24 days …our plea to save the horse has gone on for over 100 years..isn’t that enough time?
    Sincerely
    Jim

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  64. Recently I went out and bought a book about the wild horse in america. The author states through the use of studues done by private individuals and university studies that he believes the wild horse today is not even closely related to the wild horse of 100 years ago. He blames the corruptive breeding and progeny of what we refer to as wild horses due to domestiiic horses having been turned loose or escaped from the bigger ranches, and the like.
    He sates that in the 1930 not even 1500 horses remanied in the wild that could be construed as “Mustangs.
    He further states that the herds were sincerely impacted by the 1st world war, and prior to that the Boer war in Africa. the demand for horses for miltary use and food stuff for the troops during the 1st world war led further to the decline of the animal as we know it today…One really strong statement he makes is that the modern day horse as we envision it did not exist in North America, and blames the existence of the horse on the spaniards and french in their exploration of the North american continent,,,he does say that thousands of bones exist that are from eohipus that have been dug up here by archeologists, but he states no modern examples of the horse exist that have been dug up that predate Coronado or Columbus’s explorations.
    There is a really good detailed map that shows the expansion of the horse into the noble red mans scheme of things and that none of the evidence dictates hat the Indian had control of any horses prior to the 1600’s
    I’m going back as far as I can and will continue reading and studying about the horse and read as many sides to the issue I can…
    You’ve convinced me I need to research by fact and publication….so you see I am at least trying to be a little better educated in the matters of the wild horse…
    Jim

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    • James ~ I don’t know how old the book you are reading is, but since it discusses bones and not DNA evidence, it makes me think it’s out of date. Very recent DNA studies have proven that not only did the genus Equus originate in North America, they DID survive the Ice Age and were still here at least 5,700 years ago and who knows how much later. There actually IS good evidence that Equus caballus never totally died out, but the crux of the argument is that the species here was indeed E. caballus and the species the Spaniards brought back was also E. caballus. If your author doesn’t know these things, he is seriously out of date and using old assumptions that have been proven false by DNA studies published in peer reviewed journals.

      And, DNA studies done on current herds show that many of the horses DO carry ancient blood lines-especially in the Pryor herds in Montana and the Kigers in Oregon. The GAO 2008: some herds show strong evidence of old Spanish heritage which no longer exists outside of the Americas. For example, the Kiger Mustangs of Oregon and the Pryor Mustangs of Montana.

      As for the govt.making money on the Federal Grazing Program, quote from the Center for Biological Diversity’s PDF – Assessing the Full Costs of the Federal Grazing Program:

      Several efforts have been made to estimate the full costs of the federal livestock
      grazing program. This study examines budget records and other relevant data to
      derive a minimum estimate of $128 million for the full, annual cost to the U.S.
      Treasury of grazing on lands administered by the Bureau of Land Management and
      the Forest Service in the western U.S.
      Grazing fees charged by the BLM and Forest Service are limited by regulation to
      a fraction of market rates. Moreover, 50 percent of the fee revenue is retained by
      agencies to construct range developments, and approximately 15 percent goes to
      county governments. This leaves approximately 35 percent for the U.S. Treasury.
      As a result the federal grazing program operates at a loss to the U.S. Treasury, a
      loss that can be calculated as the Congressional Appropriations for the program, less the fee receipts to the Treasury. The net direct loss of the BLM’s range management program was over $72 million in 2001. The loss for the Forest Service exceeded $52 million in 2000.

      You may get the entire 25 page PDF plus much more at: http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/search/index.html?siteurl=www.biologicaldiversity.org%2Fcampaigns%2Findex.html&sa.x=0&sa.y=0&sa=Search&cx=006464995654994533830%3Ar7roh49uarm&cof=FORID%3A11&redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.biologicaldiversity.org%2Fsearch%2Findex.html&q=Federal+Grazing+Program#965

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  65. I also read in this book that the government only makes about $50.00 per head on every beef put on the Public Domain…So I’m supposed to believe that over 10,000 beef exist on governemnt leases according to what you people are quoting me…that is kind of small potatoes what they could make…but the article states they are making money on the land leases….
    According to the 1930 document that preserves the range for the Mustang it clearly states that if the wild horse herds do not bring in money or at least hold their own that eventually they could be removed from that range…that hardly seems a fair statement to the issues of the horse…however, if the statement does exist..it seems the wild horse has escaped the plan if there are indeed 35,000 left to their own device….seems the horse has kind of decided the issue and proved he can exist on that range to some degree…the book does explain in some detail why they use the helicoptors and planes for the roundups…seems the government doesn’t want to jeapardize the lives and health of it’s employees due to the dangers involved in getting the horse off the range…
    I’m, just quoting from the book and I don’t neccessarily agree with the running of the horses by aircraft, but I can honestly say I see their reasoning when time is of the essence..so the governent uses the safety in determining the use of aircraft for wild horse roundups…remember I don’t agree on the issue…..
    Someone else might want to explore the Taylor grazing Act of 1934 to see if I’ve misquoted the range laws concerning the horse…I’d also like to know if the law was rescended and is now defunct…if not it needs ammended on your case, and that would be a pretty viable arguement to proceed with…isn’t that what the elected state and government officials are for???…isn’t it plausible to expect them to change the law to fit the need???….I’m just wondering…
    The book does state that there was at one time only about $400,000 annually made on the wild horse…I broke that figure down and it comes just to over $100 per horse after expenses after wages are paid and things like rent and material are subtracted….I can’t imagine the horse being gathered and worked for let’s say $50 per animal….looks like the attempts are pretty costly and it would be indeed easier just to let the horses go and fend for themselves…but then the issue comes up that we really can’t afford to let the government use lack of care in determining the outcome of the horse….
    It kind of points out to me that the government really doesn’t want the horse out there….SO?….I’m thinking more and more along the lines that privatization of the herds is the answer…that’s an expensive proposition…and you know and I know the government isn’t going to allow us to access the back country to get the horses off….What do we do…how do we secure the horse’s very lives?

    I think ammending the Taylor act to suit our needs is in order…maybe it’s been ammended to some degree and maybe it needs looked act a little more closely…I think I’ll keep reading….
    I’d like to see the safety of the horse come first…and that includes care and management…I don’t think the government does care for your horse and i think we need control at a level where we can assure their survival to a manageable level…case in point is the Bison…it took the decimation of the bison to wake the government up to the animals plight….now the government has them on our national Domain….maybe we need to cull the herds back( bison) to make more room for the horse…roughly “supposing”…I’d think if we removed 15,000 bufffalo from the domain we’d have room for 20,000 horses….it looks plausible enough to work…the bison herds don’t look that great…their lookin kinda neglected and the school lunch programs could benefit a little with the added “all natural ” meat products….15,000 buffalo would feed a bunch of school kids and homeless for a while….the government could issue permits to those willing to apply and use the meat….I bet there are those that agree with me….guys like ted Turner would love to see the governments herds reduced so his bison would be worth more….15,000 buffalo carcasses wouldn’t hurt the beef market for too long when you think that the frozen shelf life is only less than a year….anyway seems a plausible solution…we still get remenant herds of bison to enjoy and the horse survives…what about doing away with CRP payments…using the money saved to save the horse?
    I’m thinking the horse could survive on the 300 million spent in paying some farmers not to farm…if they ain’t going to farm and get paid for it, maybe they ought to pasture some of our horses….hmmmm?

    Just thinking out loud.
    Jim

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      • Suzanne, this is such a maze of overlapping laws and regulations it makes me dizzy!

        Question: How do laws in individual states impact the wild ones/livestock/wildlife, etc.?

        I know the feds try to work out compromises with states when there are conflicts. The current Arizona illegal imigration battle is a prime example of federal vs. state’s rights. Anyone remember the Civil War?

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  66. I’ll admit I am not a scientist or even an expert on the wild horse.
    I do assert that the horse is much more capable of grazing closer to the ground than a beef animal does. Horses do in fact mill around water holes and do as much damage as cattle do.
    If our range is to be set aside for the horse and if we are truly trying to take care of him, why should any horse have to travel 50 miles to water?
    You quote me fact with numbers and I’m supposed to believe your facts as gospel.
    How many of you have watched grazing animals?
    How many of you spend 90% of your awake time out in the wildness?
    I can only speak on observation…
    I have raised horses and cattle and the cattlemen I work with contend that I can indeed raise two beef to every horse I pasture…whose right ?

    All I want is the horse to be safe, a fat healthy glossy horse in a pasture is probably better off than any horse on the open range…horses will get fat on grass alone, but they need supplementation either through mineral access and better feed in the winter…
    Your “wild “horses would be a lot better off with some form of domestication…I’m not saying break every one of them and put them to work…I’m saying they need managed…
    horses did in fact inhabit the boreal forests eons ago…that’s scientific fact by the book….
    look at the wild animals of the mountains and desert…look at the mammals and more importantly the grazing wild deer, sheep, elk, moose, and the mountain goat….what do they all have in common at the basic sense?…split toes not solid like a horse…a horse is a plains animal…we relegated him to the back pastures and desert to get him out of mind…we’ve treated him like we did the Indian…we put him on marginal ground….doesn’t the animal deserve better?
    I say take em all away from the BLM…forget your marginal ground you put into wild horse range…do the horse a favor…let him go on the plains and deep grass where we can over see him better than we do out in the “far beyond..”
    Your horse deserves better than he got….but you want to leave him out there without help or interference….as far as your government is concerned and the proof lies in fact…the government has tried to wipe your horse off the face of the earth…it hasn’t worked….we should make life easier on the icon….he deserves the plains lush in grass…where he is , is nothing short of a national disgrace….
    good luck with your complaints….when you realize your horse deserves more than a desert and rough ground in the mountains, come convince me your saving the horse…
    We’ve pushed the poor creature far beyond what he deserves…
    I hope you take care of them all…..I’ll just be content watching my two frolic in grass and know they are thankful for my care…I am doing the right thing….these two tell me I am.
    Jim

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    • The GAO says horses are easier on the range than cattle. Besides, cattle outnumber horses at least 20-1. And the damage that cattle do has been well documented as I posted earlier – check the link I gave you. Or, google it and check ANY source you want to – all say the same thing. TOO MANY CATTLE.

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  67. James, you don’t mention what book you are reading. I like to read any book on the horses I can get my hands on so I am curious as to author and title.

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  68. What I’m going to say will undoubtedly anger a lot of you…It hurts to do it…but you got to look at some other points of view…I am sorry I differ in your opinion on what is harder on the range…a horse or a cow…you can go out and buy a book that will totally document anything you believe in…case in point as far as studies goes and this will raise a lot of eyebrows….
    What’s healthier…grass fat or corn fed beef?…a recent study shows that corn fed beef has better digestible fat…that raises a lot of speculation…of course the study was done by an agricultural university…and the facts could have been swayed…but scientists worked on the project…so…..
    Now in regards to what you want me to believe about the wild horse let me say this.. In the research I have read, the native Americans did not have horses prior to the 1600’s.
    ..I don’t dispute the fact that eohipus existed prior to the ice age…but no full skeleton modern day horse has been dug up that predates the advent of spanish exploration on this continent…if the horses died out 5,000 years ago on this continent…it hardly stands to fact it then becomes a native species then does it?.. The horse had to be re-introduced .Early horse died out from various reasons…heat, cold…predation…comets….who knows what all.
    I keep hearing how far your horses have travel for food and water, some of you claim these animals will have to travel 20-50 miles for water….as a rancher let me ask you this…isn’t that kind of abusive?…doesn’t that warrant neglect?…how many young colts..pregnant mares and old horses die in that trek everyday….that’s neglect….if a horse has to travel that far for water he deserves better care…the government relegates your horse herds to the wastelands and denies you access, because they are trying to kill them all…
    The responsible thing to do is to take as good a care of your horses that the rancher does his cow on the range…
    We have treated the horse worse than the red man…the two species have been given the most worthless areas to roam…we tried to wipe them out, put em on marginal ground…do everything but take care of them…we gave the Indian small pox…tuberculosis and alcohol…we put the horse on starvation rations…these two species share a lot of common ground….
    Prove to me your horses are better off on the public domain if they have to travel 20-50 miles in a day to get a drink and sufficient feed…
    I realize there are some good ranges…but let’s face it…the government justifies taking cattle in on your good range because the beef feeds the world…
    I don’t know anything about welfare ranching…the only programs I get into as a rancher are for the improvement of the range I own…I allow public access and I have to go by grazing policies set in place and mandated by the government…I also have to do deferred grazing….These “free programs”…come at a cost to me both financially and at the price of the work I have to do to implement them…there’s no free ride here…I don’t believe it when you say the cattle are harder on ground than horses…I don’t care what studies you quote..they can be biased….
    You want to preach about the platitudes of the horse…and then tell me he is better off on the public domain….then you tell me, you make him walk 50 miles to water…you call that saving the species

    …you could save every horse you got out there by putting him on good grass, protection and water…it ain’t the BLM or Salazarr killing your horse….your killing your horse, your the boss…you pay their wages…your tax money if I am to believe you goes for the horse…yet you make him walk 50 miles to water
    Put your horses on better ground…give em good feed in the winter…give em a little protection….put em somewhere where everyone can enjoy the beauty….
    Your abusing your horse by relegating him to the inferior interior department…
    Privatize the wild horse or put him in sanctuaries that are at least manged for the horse alone…this magnificent beast deserves better company than the cougar and the cow, the wolf or the grizzly…
    yeah your saving the “Wildhorse”…The “Mustang” alright…If my horses had to walk 50 miles to water you’d throw me in jail for abuse…
    Keep preaching how much you care….
    But wait…you can justify it….some of you arm chair ecologist just follow along like the sheep and goats on the Apache reservation…you think you know what’s best?
    A fed happy horse is better off than any wild horse fighting for existence….go study on that…it makes me sick when you preach about the salvation of this icon and then relegate the poor critter to the wastelands….
    You ain’t ready to save the horse, …How dumb is it to believe that rocky bluffs and hot deserts are this animals natural environment, hell by scientific evidence the horses’ feet tell you he is a plains animal…his teeth even tell you he is adapted to good grass and not the blackroot and ironweed….your horse deserves better….at least the ones I own out there do!
    pardon me for caring…no freaking horse I am responsible for has to travel over a mile to water
    I worked one horse rescue with the sheriff, Jerry Finch, the BLM and HSUS….. the evidence and the witnesses and one really smart D.A… put a guy away for not feeding, watering or seeing to a bunch of horses welfare…
    Everyone applauded our efforts except the guilty….
    We are withholding food….water and not providing care for 35,000 horses and calling it “saving the Wild Horse”….
    What Gives?
    Jim

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  69. Based on any of the information I have gathered this man is a liar and a coward and one of the most inhumane sob’s on the planet. I pose the tragedies of the last roundup in Calico (which he deemed a success) as proof as well as the intent to continue further roundups even in the face of several legal actions against his department.

    I also find that Salizar is a former or current cattle rancher so you don’t have to count very hard to add 2+2 and get favors to ranchers which in my book would be a conflict of interest.

    And just for good measure let’s throw in BP who is killing prudo bay and poisoning the Gulf at the same time it is running a pipeline through the western states which also is contributing to these unnecessary and inhumane roundups.

    OH and let’s not forget the company building this, ElPaso Corporation from Salizars home state. I find them all to be despicable liars and murderer’s filled with greed and profiteering. Which sound interestingly enough like racketeering. They all should be immediately removed from office and charged and convicted of multiple crimes

    If it were up to me these people would all be rounded up and run through the desert by helicopters until their feet fell off and they were screaming for mercy and then I would make them run it again and then sell their carcasses to china for a delicacy.

    That is what they are doing to these harmless healthy happy animals. We have to find honest and legal ways to stop these people if there is to be anything left of the America we once new and any decent thing we ever stood for.

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  70. James, check out photos of horses that died due to dehydration while just on the other side of the fence were fat and happy cattle. The reason the horses have to travel such distances is cuz of the damned fences that none of us put up–they are there to protect the livestock production. The water holes are fenced off-again not by any advocate. And just done recently is a study in Australia that even horses on good range will travel up to 34 miles in a day, they are prey animals and when not confined by fences a wandering, migrating animal. Also before the BLM and others came in horses were naturally found in these areas–only they had access to water, encumbered only by natural terrain. It’s man’s illegal interference that caused the current situation. Those that have circumvented the law and those that put up the fences ought to be the ones you are accusing of murdering our mustangs.

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  71. You want to blame everyone but ourselves for the plight of the wild horse…yet everyday someone goes out and abandons a horse on the public domain..I just don’t get it…
    The slaughter plants did serve a purpose for a while and unwanted or horses that couldn’t be afforded were taken there and put away…now they are abandoned and we the public are supposed to support them…something isn’t right about that fact…

    I just don’t understand your thinking that every horse deserves to run free and unencumbered by mans intervention…the horse is a beast of work, he has pulled the plow, traversed this country by pulling wagons and stage coaches, he moved the herds of beef across the far reaching horizons so we could eat, he has been there for every exploration that happened on this continent…he still gets worked at ranches all over the country… he’s better off managed on good grass than he is in the wild and you all say your doing him a favor, honor and a great service abandoning him nine out of ten times on marginal ground.
    We put this poor critter in dry lots and feed them dry hay year around and call these places horse rescues…you know and I know that if a horse is put on good ground, has adequate protection and access to water he will remain there and get fat… a horse is a grazer he is not a dry lot animal.
    You pen him up on bare ground, go out and solicit funds to support him, accept donations and sign up to be 5013c non-profit groups and don’t issue receipts…
    About 6 out of 10 horse rescues involve horses who have been neglected, starved, beaten and abandoned by people who started out thinking they were doing the correct thing…I get pretty confused when you all start telling me about the benefits you are showering on the horse…
    the mess at 3-Strikes was not a rare occurence…there isn’t a week goes by that some horse doesn’t get neglected by the well intentioned…
    You complain about welfare ranching and yet you want every tax payer out there to support your cause…isn’t that an act of begging for welfare?
    Your not responsible enough to be delegated in telling me what’s right for the horses…some of you have never fed one or cleaned up after one…you send in money thinking that’s a good thing…let me tell you something and it goes to fact….60 percent of your donations go to the human aspect and not the welfare of the horses…most but not all rescues are there to make money that is not taxed…that is welfare ranching at the extreme…

    Your going to berate me and threaten me and think I’m all for horse slaughter….that’s your right I guess….but it’s one of my inalienable rights under the Constitution to disagree with your train of thought…In my opinion ….your horse is better off by being put on private property and cared for than he is running the inferior place you have had chosen for you…you go ahead an delegate that animal to the harsh extremes…you graze him on the black root, mesquite and thorns…or put him up high on the alpine meadows where the grass never gets deep….graze him on cheat grass and let him gnaw on pine bark and cotton wood when he can’t find the grass under three feet of snow..
    .
    My horses will be eating good grass, drinking water they haven’t had to go through hell for and living a life of luxury compared to what your putting the horses through out on “your public domain”…
    save the horses….give them the respect they deserve….
    I don’t need your scientific essays to tell me what’s right in this instance…
    Horses are better off on private property than they ever will be on the public domain.
    Good luck in your search for the truth…

    I think a lot of the people whose livlihood it is to take care of and be responsible for animals would agree with me…I am not for supporting your endeavors of the horse being relegated to the Public Domain…the responsible thing is to practice adequate animal husbandry, selective breeding and pasture management….you can’t do any of that if you abandon the horse to the place he has had to fight to survive in…I challenge your definition of animal welfare when it comes to the horse!
    Jim

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    • James, PLEASE stop making this all about YOU! no one cares about your stuff, we care about the fact that BLM is continuing to run horses to death, and then try to spin it into, once again, poor water, or no forage or whatever, we CARE deeply about our horses, so if you can’t support us, then SHUT UP ALREADY!

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    • Okay, Jim, you’ve gotten on my last nerve, so let me tell you how I spent my day.

      The Livestock Inspector called early this morning and said someone wanted to surrender two emaciated foals. We had very little information, just that two babies were dying. So we did what we always do – hooked up the trailer and took off.

      We met the inspector and drove to the residence. When we arrived both foals were on the ground – skin and bones, but still alive. The gentleman who was surrendering the babies told a story that turned my stomach.

      Since you can’t take mares with foals at their sides to a New Mexico Sale Barn, the owner had ripped these suckling little ones from their mothers and took them to the FLEA MARKET. The b*st*rd wanted to make a buck two ways – sending his undoubtedly skinny mares to slaughter and selling their young ones for whatever he could get.

      The gentleman who surrendered the foals bought them a few weeks ago. They’re 3 to 4 months old, but stunted from neglect. He had hoped to rehabilitate them, but found he was way over his head. He certainly was. He had them in a pen with a good shade cover and water, but he was trying to feed them alfalfa hay. I don’t think they had much idea hay was food. Food was the warm milk that came from Mom.

      While we were carrying these babies to the trailer, the inspector got a call about a third foal sold by the same man. The people who bought him were having no luck with rehab and wanted to give him up. We made sure the first two were settled and set off to collect the third.

      He’s a tiny Appy, and is younger and weaker than the other two. The people who bought him were trying to keep him on a bottle, but they were using cow’s milk and weren’t feeding often enough. He’s severely dehydrated and after our vet got an IV started, he pooped out what looked like little rocks.

      Along the way we got more information on the owner. Evidently there were originally 5 foals. The Livestock Inspector is trying to track down the other two, as well as the criminal who sold them. If the remaining two are found alive, we will take them in as well. At least we have three at our vet.

      Yes, if these “poor critters” make it through the night and beyond, they WILL be in dry stalls and pens for a while so we can monitor their progress. Several volunteers, including myself, have already committed to round-the-clock feeding shifts. We will do whatever it takes for as long as it takes.

      We’re way over capacity, but NEVER turn our backs on a horse in peril. They get the best feed, vet, and farrier care available. Every horse has clean water and shelter. We have two small pastures and turn them out as often as we can. Most of all, they have lots of love and attention. We may not be able to provide as much as we would like, but we provide whatever THEY need. It ain’t fancy, but we make it work.

      We ARE a non-profit. We are LICENSED by the New Mexico Livestock Board. We have NO paid staff, and every cent of our shoestring budget goes to help the horses. We DO solicit funds, accept donations, and ALWAYS provide receipts.

      So, Jim, if you can spare a little to help these babies just go to our website and donate. I promise I’ll personally send a thank you note along with the receipt.

      Linda Horn
      Volunteer and Board Member
      Four Corners Equine Rescue, Aztec, NM

      P.S. I know you care for horses, so please pray for these little ones.

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  72. Hey JJames why don’t you send your thoughts and ideas to the BLM and then share with all of us their response?

    I am waiting with baited breath.

    Marge

    Wherever man has left his footprint
    In the long ascent from Barbarism to
    Civilization we will find the footprint of the horse beside it.

    { John Trotwood Moore }

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  73. James quite frankly I think we have all had about enough of your overly wrong rambling nonsense. I thought at one point you had stated you were not going to be posting on this blog anymore. I don’t even bother to read the drivel anymore.

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  74. Excuse me…is Mr. Weber here (or there) for equines, himself or some connection to the BLM?

    Anyone that defends DOI (for many reasons) is not a disinterested party.

    Mr. Weber, you were told long ago that if DOI didn’t cause this equine mess there would be no 3 Strikes in the first place.

    Stop your selective fact and opinion findings.

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  75. If this is ol’ Bob’s idea of a “new direction” then God help the Gulf and all of America; wild horses continue to die thanks to his great new direction,

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  76. Linda:
    I’m glad that the group of volunteers is taking care of those colts…I’m not financially able to support your colts through donation ..I will take your advice and pray for them and I will make an offer to give these colts a really good home on great grass, cover and clean water…if the colts can recuperate…gain some weight and get healthy enough to travel, you have free pasture for them if you get them here…I’ll stand for any inspection you want and I’ll provide references from our veterinarians and the bank and feed store..
    .I sold down on the cows and am currently trying to put one of the ranches back together again after some severe flood damage.. I don’t hire any work done and am forced to do all the repairs on my own…
    .I don’t donate money to many causes but I do offer you assistance in pasturing these colts if the need arises…here in this part of the country horse pasture goes for $25 per month…so you see I would be donating in a like kind manner…no charge for the colts…you decide where you want them to go when they are older or i get them broke gentle and sell them for your group and you take the money…this is about all I can do donation wise…..
    Thanks for giving these colts a new lease on life….your hands are full….been there…

    I also think that the people who let these animals get so far down should never be allowed to own an animal dependent on their care again…
    It’s tough seeing colts go through so much trauma…and these young horses sound like they are in dire need….

    About all I can do is offer pasture and care for them here….
    My number is 308-760-1983
    Jim

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    • Hi James,

      Sorry to have taken so long getting back to you. I truly appreciate your kind offer, but will have to decline. We try to keep our fosters and adoptions local, especially the foals and younger horses.

      This is the article on the babies from Sunday’s paper:
      http://www.daily-times.com/four_corners-news/ci_15543145

      As you can see, they came to us on the brink of death. In fact, Dr. Quintana said that seeing them made him want to resign from the human race. We knew that if anyone could save them it would be Dr. Q. He’s our rescue’s miracle worker!

      We already have a great foster home for “Freckles” (aka “Fonzie”), the little Appy colt. The others will require more care and monitoring until their lungs are totally clear of pneumonia. Hopefully they’ll all come to FCER either later today or tomorrow.

      Again, thanks so much for your concern and prayers. All of us have done allot of praying over the past week.

      Linda

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  77. A few months ago we watched the appropriations meetings with Salazar when Landrieu engaged him on behalf of the wild horses and burros. . .remember, anyone?

    during that meeting, I heard mention that the current Long Term Holding facilities were being incorrectly funded from an account set up by Kennedy. Here is a recent article about that fund: it is under intense scrutiny since the oil spill, as I anticipated (in my feeble 2-celled brain) that it might become:

    Perhaps we are going to see a rapid implosion of BLM’s little WHB empire with the horses being the ones “caught in the middle” and the beaurocrats and Catoors the LAST ONES STANDING.

    DEPRESSING THOUGHT!

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  78. I read recently that the governor of Wyoming is willing to sell off part of the public domain in his state to generate revenue and put it on the tax rolls.
    here’s an opportunity!
    Peta wants to make an offer, but they are doing it under the auspices of promoting a vegan society…shouldn’t the people for the ethical treatment of animals become involved with your plight?…why don’t they offer their proposed purchase for the benefit of the horse?
    I did alienate some of you and I am sorry…I tried to give a reasonable arguement from the other side of the issue…to miscontrue my intentions as thwarting your efforts was not correct.
    I do value the horse…I am not for slaughter of any horse, simply because it is wrong and as a small time cattleman I don’t want to see the horse compete with beef on the market….I don’t like penned chickens, sheep or hogs either…you can eat safe beef if you know where to find it…ours are home raised without anti-biotics if possible, and we do not implant any of them!

    I don’t attest to the fact of being educated as an ecologist, an agronomist nor do I hold a degree in animal husbandry…I have worked around horses and cattle most of my life..the wild horse in my opinion , isn’t all that much different than the domestic horse as far as eating habits go…that’s just fact…
    Your horses on the public domain are in jeapordy ..I admit that…they need better care…we do need to manage them to a degree that stresses their very survival….
    I worked with some very concerned individuals from the BLM…one was a biologist working on birth control measures for the herds…she was a very caring and gentle person and never beat, or carried even whip or stick while working the horses on the rescue I was involved in…she was quite knowledgeable and did in fact admire the horse…your wild horses are her responsibilty and she takes her job seriously…
    IN all truth and I know jerry finch would admit this…without the BLM’s involvement and help we could not have possibly saved the horses we did…they did it without sending a bill…yet all their employees who were on scene were paid personell!
    I know about all the bills with the exception of the veterinarian bill that were submitted during the attempt at 3-Strikes here in Western Nebraska because it was my responsibilty to collect them and submit them to HSUS….Jerry Finch delegated that task to me….I made sure every bill was paid up and I did have to wait 6 months on some of them to get paid…IF hsus hadn’t paid those bills I don’t know what would have happened, but I imagine Jerry and his foundation would have had to ante up….
    I do defend some of the actions of the BLM…I think they are tasked with unimaginable responsibilties…the people I worked with certainly had their hands full…for you to condemn the BLM in all it’s worth isn’t right….
    You also condemn the rancher for using the public domain without realizing that if the domain could generate more money, your horses would stand a better chance…I stand loyal with your endeavors to save the horse…I do so in a little reluctant manner though if your intentions are to save every one and relegate them to inferior range land…I differ in your intentions to just let them run free without some form of management…your horses if left unchecked will inter-breed and they will simply kill themselves off in that process…that isn’t right…by any account…
    You have the responsibilty and the means to support SOME of the horses…but you don’t have the means or support to protect all of them…Some are better than none in this case….and that means some have to go…
    Congress just recently passed a multi-billion dollar unemployment extension…government employees are going to be asked to furlough some work days without pay…that ain’t going to cover the bill, other programs will be cut for this measure and your horses are going to be one of them…Obama wants the public domain to generate money…he is going to do it …by selling the leases and ranges to the highest bidder…oil companies…timber industries and mineral expansion is going to take place out there on that domain..we aren’t stopping that action…nor can we afford to lose the revenue…I hate those facts…and that is what they are…I didn’t make them up…Go down on the Gulf where the oil is spewing and tell me the government didn’t lease out the public domain to a foreign company…while your at it explain that proposal to someone who is forced to tie his boat up for maybe a couple years or ten…tell me the people of this country haven’t had to ante up to this freaking disaster…tell me BP is paying for everything.
    I want to see Some horses left in the wild, I want to see them on the best ranges out there…I want them close to water…I want their physical and medical needs met… we owe it to this icon…the very existence of this nation rests on the historical roll the horse has provided…
    I’m sorry to say some on the domain will have to be removed…that’s because for their well being…for the salvation of the gene pool and for their very survival….some are going to be sacrificed either through adoption or euthanasia…
    I don’t like the thought of the euthanasia…but the responsible thing to do is to manage the herds and not abandon them to the nether regions without winter supplementation and no care…to do so otherwise is a cruel and negligent intent… that fact borders on abuse…you can’t hide it, nor deny it..
    Horses are better off under privatization…they are unquestionably healthier…under privatization the horse is better off without government management or intervention….
    We are a nation totally dependent on trade…to supply that trade we are using our resources up to a severe degree and your so called “Public Domain”…
    Teddy Rossevelts intentions were for those wild spaces to be set aside for the private citezen to enjoy…but this government has hidden the fact it was in all actuality set aside in all truthfulness to provide a means for surviaval and trade…
    We didn’t save all the buffalo…but the herds we have kept as token examples are kind of unique and we saved the species from extinction…the same will have to happen to the horse…I hate that thought…but in all truthfulness…just like the buffalo the best horses…the better pool of genes…will be those horse saved by individuals who agree with privatization of the species…
    We can’t collect enough donations or taxes to provide security for every species…we can’t do that for mankind let alone the horse!
    It’s sad that we are to this point in our existence but it is a humbling fact.
    Jim….
    P.S…
    feel free to send this post on to the BLM…
    … the rescue process eats up a lot of funding in one form or another… it takes an army of people to save the animals…it also takes money…
    Your horses on the public domain do cost you…they do not run free…do cattle outnumber horses on the range?…probably…you don’t see many horses on the menu at eating establishments…nor do you see many purses, shoes or leather goods come from the horse in this country…is their a need to pasture cattle on the public domain?
    well yeah if you eat beef, wear leather shoes are dependent on some prescriptions…use some plastics or even drive a vehicle your dependent on beef…
    even using ethanol helps the beef industry because we are able to use some of the bi-products of that refining process to help feed the world…if your a “Vegan” your dependent on the farmer…you pay out more money every year to farmers not to farm than you do to provide environmental protection for the very society you are a member of!…then you have the audacity to condemn “welfare ranching” and your arguement goes down the tubes because in the next statement..”welfare ranching”..only reflects 3% of the whole industry?
    Your science falls apart when you only interpret what you want it to…
    I’m doing my part…I am supporting the horse in the way I can do it…I took on the responsibilty and care and welfare of taking on some of your Mustangs…your welcome to come visit and see some really nice horse run free on a controlled basis..I think if you do…you’ll see a couple of really comfortable secure animals whose needs are being met…I also think you’d have to admit they are in extremely good shape compared to 60% of the horses forced to run the “Public Domain”.
    I hope you have a pleasant summer.
    keep discussing these topics…your educating me…i find it rewarding…
    also bear with me a little bit in not agreeing with you 100% and not accepting everything as gospel because I may be able to dispel it.
    JIm

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    • You certainly say a lot here and cover a lot of issues.

      Where are YOUR statistics on “welfare ranching” and their sources. Please provide your information. I like blogs because I always learn something new.

      How do you speak to the cruelty of the roundups? All the deaths. (Please see more recent posts for up to the minute roundup deaths. Also, processing terribly stressed horses (7/21/10 or thereabouts). What say? If they have to go, is this how they should go? Gathered up like roaches (some gettin’ sqashed & killed as a matter of course?) No, things don’t really add up here. Not at all.

      There’s always MORE TO THE STORY. And you may have your ideas, but you certainly don’t have The Big Picture that people like Obama/Salazar will.

      Keep caring for the Mustangs but none of this can be reconciled. Don’t even try.

      Sincerely,

      Janet Ferguson

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    • James–why do you keep calling our American Mustangs “your mustangs”? I was under the impression that these wild horses belonged to ALL of us, with some appreciating them a lot more than others.

      It is rather difficult to follow your reasoning as to why the “ranchers” who run cattle on everybody’s Public Lands should not be called “Welfare Ranchers”. Here is my reasoning– Farmers and cattle producers in the East and Mid-West do not have access to land to run cattle at such a small price per cow and calf. They have to pay/rent(much greater per acre fees) for their land and pay taxes on that land. If the land is so poor in these Public Lands why do these “ranchers” even bother raising cattle? Could it be a “tax write off” aqainst other activities that they engage in such as Hewett Packard, Frito Lay, and other corporate giants that “run” cattle on Public Lands? Or maybe it is the “money flow” that having access to Public Lands brings to the Allotment holder.

      You bring up PETA and vegans and seem to think that the American Mustang horse activists are or should be aligned with these groups. I don’t anywhere see where the majority of people involved with wild horses care for the agendas of these organizations. If you want to be a vegetarian I believe that is your right and right now at my age,(lol) I am beginning to think that eating less red meat has it’s merits. To set the record straight, I have been involved in a small family business that raises beef cattle. My grandchildren all show 4-H beef and I have been caring for an American Mustang for the last 20 years.

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    • Jim you get so deep in the details that its just muddie water after a while. You ever going to write that book I paid for with donations to horses? 🙂

      Tell you one thing though. I remember quite a while ago 2 years ago? you said pointing out the toxic drugs in horsemeat would make a difference in the fight against slaughter, you were right.

      If we could please focus on one issue with the wild horses. The roundup inc. company that uses the 3-teaming helicopters. They run horses to death with those helicopters. Pregnant mares misscarry their foals. Its not good for any horse to run paniced by aircraft- 5-10 plus miles, that harms them. They cut off water to make it easier to move the horses. As we know 4 days no water kills horses.

      One thing, one issue- how do we get the use of aircraft to round-up wild horses stopped?

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  79. euthanasia?

    Any of the Mustangs I have seen go directly to slaughter.

    For years BLM employees bought Mustangs at sales kept them for the required period and then shipped them to slaughter.

    Jim have you ever seen a horse slaughtered in the Mexcio plants?

    Canada is not much better.

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  80. Jim I continue to disagree with your assessment of the information available to the public concerning the wild mustang and your ideas of what is the best for our horses. I got tired of one minute you calmly putting across your point of view and the next minute attacking and asserting that we as a group are little more than horse killers. This goes without saying your personal attack on RT. I’ve had it, exchange of information OK, attacking NOT OK, not now not ever. As Suzanne Moore stated “I agree that we are going to have some differences of opinion among ourselves – that’s natural, and we can certainly work it out as long as it’s all toward the good of the horses. BUT, there are some things that an advocate would never say or even think. As far as I’m concerned – IMHO – you have crossed the line.” I would guess that the vast majority of the people on this board have rescued animals in varying degrees of horror, we just do it and don’t wear it on our sleeve like some red badge of courage. Some of us have seen the horrors on as vast a level as 3-strikes, we help and then go on with it waiting for the next horror to come along so we can plow in again. Screams and tears are for the alone moments but when the animals need you, you just do it because you can and you will. DO NOT INSULT ME BY MAKING ANY ASSUMPTION ABOUT WHAT I HAVE BEEN THROUGH AND WHAT I PERSONALLY DO FOR ANIMALS, THE SAME FOR EVERYONE ELSE HERE–IT AIN’T GONNA BE TOLERATED. At this point guy I just don’t trust you.

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    • I agree with Morgan.

      3 Strikes just like the ball game, 3 Strikes Jim and you are out!!

      This dude needs more attention than we have time for. My suggestion to you all is to ignore him and hopefully he will go away or if you have to, hit the delete key.

      We have more important things to do.

      Marge

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  81. I returned all the money that was sent to me directly to write the book. The book will never be written by me, nor do I think any of my actions or experience during this wreck at 3-strikes will ever be included because I have removed myself from that scene for various reasons.
    The first reason is this..recently a few of the horses we saved and adopted out were sold to acquire money for the people who adopted them. The adoption papers said that wasn’t supposed to be the way it went. I feel some people took advantage over the situation. I realize they put a lot of money into the horses with feed and care and felt they were entitled to the proceeds.
    My understanding was that the horses were never to be sold…could be I made a mistake in assuming this…but a lot of the people I loaded up horses for said the horses were going to run free and be well taken care of and would never be sold.
    Another reason for removing myself from any inclusion in the process of saving these horses is the fact that some of the rescue facilities these horses went to never issued receipts to people who donated to the cause…i.e. adoption and the like.
    So inadvertantly I became a part of something that wasn’t right…people had and have good intentions but money always seem to over ride what is right at times.
    The main reason to exclude me having anything to do with the responsibility I might owe to the true story of the wreck is this…not everything is as it seemed at this rescue… there were some things I know that would detract from the sucessfulness of our mission during this episode…. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth to recall those events.
    This thing was horrible..to bear witness to what those poor animals went through during their captivity under jasons care left it’s mark…it wasn’t a rancher who killed these horses..it was a “HORSE RESCUE” (supposedly)!
    You people haven’t told me any thing that will add to the salvation of the horse if we continue to leave them on the public domain.
    I do agree the helicoptor roundups are a little hard on horses. But I have been in the back country a horseback and could not imagine getting them horses in by that means…it’s pretty hard to work a mob of wild horses horseback…the speed and ground just don’t lend themselves to that method…it costs hundreds of dollars per hr. to use the helicoptors and planes…the per horse cost doesn’t even add up!
    You also haven’t given me a plausible method that would work!.
    In all actuality, them poor horses are probably better left alone to fend for themselves…but then the public is going to notice that without some form of birth control…without some form of management…those free running horses are going to jeapordize the very ground we leave to them…over breeding and rampant inbreeding will occur…disease will take it’s toll and whole herds will die agonizing deaths and forever be lost…you can’t run these horses without management…your going to have to cull some members and where or who is going to take that responsibility?
    Are they better left to the BLM? You certainly act as though that isn’t an option…
    So pray tell me, what is the solution?
    I also don’t like the insinuation that ranching is done on any form of welfare process… the beef rancher hardly ever succeeds in getting the funds from the government they need to survive…they have to manage and work hard for every dollar.. they are , mostly very independent….unlike a farmer who can get paid for not farming.
    I realize land is set aside for the wild horse…but times have changed…every market has become a “global market”…not one country is self sufficient..each depends on another to export, import and survive.
    The United States cannot feed itself from its own farms…if we could we wouldn’t be importing fish, beef, pork rice and the like…we can however…export and import to meet those needs.
    IF you have 35,000 horses out there on the public domain and you figure each horse at 30 acres or more because of the marginal ground we have them on, how much of the public domain do you need?…maybe we ought to say 40 acres so we can let some of it recuperate..your figure becomes astronomical for no more return on your investment than you receive… the satisfaction of watching them is important, but it don’t pay all the bills.
    We have become a nation dependent on trade…OIL has become the “Gold Rush”…to meet our needs someone in Washington has figured out we need to even import it! At the same time we are leasing vast amounts of that product out to foreign companies and they could care less about regulations that will secure our future or even protect the environment and all the wild places…sooner than later, even right now we are tapping into those areas set aside for conservation of our natural resources…your horses are a big part to some of you to the naturalness you want to save, I admire that!
    What do we give up to protect them?
    How do they ALL survive if we are to?
    Thanks for educating me to some degree, I admire your zeal and enthusiasm.
    I guess I don’t belong here, some have made that clear…at the same time I think maybe you should read over some of the posts I and others have written.
    Some of you have been a little unfair with your insinuations that I am pro-slaughter.
    Including Mr. Fitch!…that’s an attack without merit.
    Be advised I am not pro-slaughter of any horse…If i was I’d be part of that movement!
    I chose the ground to stand on and that is the salvation of a national icon…
    The HORSE has a lot better standing in my mind than some of you!!
    If that was not the case I wouldn’t be trying so hard to make sure the ones I own are safe!
    Please excuse me for being blunt at times…accept my apology if you feel i attacked any one personally…I gave and took and I have been honest in at least sharing my unwanted opinion.
    Evidently I am not part of your fight because I ask to many questions and don’t back everything I say with proof from a book!
    I guess the resourcefulness of the limited experience I have with dealing with livestock and wildlife has no merit in this room.
    SO I”LL LEAVE THE SALVATION OF THE HORSE TO YOU EXPERTS(?)
    Jim

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