by Vicki Tobin, of the Equine Welfare Alliance
Rep. "Slaughterhourse" Sue Wallis (Republican) Recluse, Wyoming
WALLIS SAYS – HORSE ACT of 2009.
TRANSLATION – UNACCOUNTABLE, IRRESPONSIBLE OWNERS ACT of 2009
WALLIS SAYS – Horse owners and concerned citizens from across the Nation have come together with real solutions to ensure the humane care, management, and euthanasia of horses; to ensure the long-term sustainability and viability of the equine industry; and to restore the market for all horses. There is no disagreement whatsoever that all animals should be treated humanely from birth through death.
TRANSLATION – Wallis believes horse owners should be allowed to own and breed irresponsibly as many horses as they choose without regard to the future of these horses. When they are tired of them, can’t sell the excess or can no longer use them, these owners should be allowed to escape any responsibility though one final act of abuse and cruelty and they should receive a financial reward for this betrayal.
WALLIS SAYS – Current federal legislation pertaining to horses, H.R. 503, “Prevention of Cruelty to Equines,” its corresponding Senate bill S. 727, are misguided “feel good” bills that at first glance, and to a misinformed, emotionally manipulated public seem to protect horses—while, in fact, they do exactly the opposite. These bills and their horrific unintended consequences institutionalize and codify a miserable, cruel, and barbaric death for hundreds of thousands of horses. Horses suffer from starvation,
abandonment, and neglect by owners unable to sell or give their horses away.
Ultimately, these bills would spell the end to the use and enjoyment of horses by American citizens.
THE REALITY – Horses are abused, starved and neglected with or without the availability of slaughter. Studies have proven that incidents increase and decrease in direct correlation to the economy and unemployment. The largest case of horse neglect in the US occurred in 2005 when all three slaughter plants were in operation.
Any opposition to horse slaughter is defined and grossly exaggerated by antihorse groups as emotional. The entire HORSE Act paragraph above is a play on emotions without any facts to support these statements. Claiming that the proposed anti-slaughter legislation could spell the end of our enjoyment of horses is an emotional and transparently ridiculous scare tactic.
Ending slaughter has no impact on the ability of American citizens to use and
enjoy horses.
WALLIS SAYS – Concerned citizens who sincerely seek the well-being of horses should understand that animals of all kinds require management and control. No jurisdiction in the country allows feral animals or native wildlife to reproduce unchecked to the point where they have eliminated their resource base and are starving, dying, and destroying the environment for all other species. The same immutable laws of nature apply to horses. To protect people and the environment, horses must be sold, adopted or used by someone who has the resources to care for them, or be humanely euthanized, just like the local small animal shelter euthanizes unadoptable animals.
THE REALITY – The wild horses have been proven by DNA testing NOT to be feral but true decedents of Mustangs that roamed our lands for thousands of years. No scientific evidence has been provided to justify removal of wild horses from public lands. If the public lands can sustain over 7.5 million privately owned cattle, the land can surely sustain 50,000 wild horses. The GAO study has determined that the range deterioration was a result of the cattle, not the horses.
WALLIS SAYS – Euthanasia is defined as a “good death” that is quick, painless and as stress-free as possible. After euthanasia is provided, all legal, moral and ethical obligations for the well-being and care of that animal ceases. How the carcass is disposed of, or utilized, is entirely the prerogative, right, and responsibility of the animal’s owner.
THE REALITY – The recommended method to end a horse’s life by all major veterinarian organizations is by humane euthanasia administered by a licensed veterinarian. A horse’s life is not ended by humane euthanasia at slaughter plants. Ending horse slaughter will not remove an owner’s options for disposal following humane euthanasia. The horse can be buried (if permitted in their area), rendered or cremated. The only difference is that the owner will NOT be PAID to dispose of his/her horse and the horse will not endure the horrors involved in the trip to and processing at a slaughter plant.
The misuse of the word euthanasia by anti-horse groups and the HORSE Act is
an attempt to equate slaughter with a procedure performed by veterinarians.
Horses are NOT euthanized at slaughter plants. The AAEP defines euthanasia as a “veterinary procedure.”
WALLIS SAYS – For animals that have been trusted companions, loyal partners, and pets, this will generally mean a respectful burial or cremation depending on the owner’s philosophy and resources. For others the most appropriate option might be delivery to a rendering plant or a landfill. Rendering plants reduce animal carcasses to oils and useful by-products such as soap, glycerin, lubricants, inks, cleansing creams, shampoo, glue, antifreeze, explosives, and paints. Most small animal shelters utilize
rendering plants for carcass disposal, as do livestock producers who occasionally have carcasses unsuitable for processing.
THE REALITY – All animals deserve a humane death whether they are pets, work, service or sport animals.
The Horse Act does not address slaughter as a means of disposal for animals
that are work, service, sport and therapy animals. The horses in these categories receive care through-out their careers that includes many drugs that are prohibited for food animals. These animals have been entering the food chain despite the fact that they have received medications that are explicitly prohibited.
Failure of the Horse Act to address this issue is disingenuous and ignoring the
majority of horses that are currently being sent to slaughter. The types of horses that are being sent to slaughter will no longer be accepted as a food source.
WALLIS SAYS – Because horses are traditional food animals in most of the world, there is a viable export market for horse meat. Many horse owners either need, or wish to recoup the monetary value of their unusable horse, or a horse they can no longer support, and are comfortable with this solution; especially if they can be assured that their animals are humanely killed.
THE REALITY – Horses are not food animals in the US and the US is not responsible for providing a luxury food source to elite diners in foreign countries. We wouldn’t think of providing dog and cat meat to Asian markets so would we provide horses to foreign markets?
According to the American Horse Council, the horse industry earns
approximately 39 billion dollars directly and 102 billion dollars indirectly from horses every year. In comparison, horse owners are paid only 3 cents for every $100 these horses earn.
$300 does not recoup a significant proportion of the monetary value for the
care and ownership of a horse. To suggest so is utterly ridiculous. Horse
slaughter is nothing more than an owner getting paid to dispose of his/her
horse vs. paying a small amount to humanely end his/her horse’s life.
The H.O.R.S.E. Act of 2009 is being proposed to include the following:
WALLIS SAYS – Require that all horses to be euthanized must be humanely killed using a method that is approved by the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) and the American Association of Equine Practitioners (AAEP).
THE REALITY – Both the AVMA and AAEP support humane euthanasia administered by a licensed veterinarian as the preferred method. The AAEP, in regard to the captive bolt states, that the animal must be calm, sedated or humanely restrained – none of which occurs at a slaughter plant.
This is another attempt to misuse guidelines that were created by veterinarians for veterinarians to support the slaughtering of American horses. The Veterinarians for Equine Welfare (VEW) have produced a white paper opposing horse slaughter and the use of the captive bolt. VEW is comprised of veterinarians that are members of AVMA and/or AAEP.
WALLIS SAYS – Recommend that state and local agencies responsible for overseeing equine rescue, recovery, and retirement operations (that accept unusable and unwanted horses, as well as horses that owners cannot support, for a fee or for no charge), follow AAEP “Care Guidelines of Equine Rescue and Retirement Facilities.” State and local livestock agencies should ensure that horses are cared for appropriately and that owner’s stipulations are being adhered to in terms of the disposition of the horses that have been surrendered.
THE REALITY – All legitimate rescue facilities end a horse’s life by humane euthanasia. Once an animal has been surrendered, their right to make decisions on the horses care, ceases. The animals are surrendered because the owner can no longer care for the horse or they don’t want the horse. Wallis appears to be proposing to force a rescue to send a horse to slaughter or perhaps this is another way of stating that the owner is no longer responsible or accountable except when it comes to sending his/her horse to slaughter.
WALLIS SAYS – Tighten the current transport regulations, strengthen the penalties, and provide for the enforcement of violations of the equine transport for processing requirements. Strengthen the provisions that would ensure these laws and regulations are enforced at international borders.
THE REALITY – Every documented incident of transport abuse has occurred within the US borders and with horses going to slaughter pipeline points or to slaughter. Ending slaughter will end transport issues and not require additional law enforcement to monitor transport. Owners transporting their horses for show or legitimate sale do not cram 50 horses into trailers meant for livestock transport. The owners transport their horses in trailers built for horses that afford sensible, safe transport, not in trailers built for livestock.
WALLIS SAYS – Require and provide for training and certification for employees at equine processing facilities involved in the actual humane euthanasia of horses prior to processing.
THE REALITY – The captive bolt is NOT euthanasia, humane or otherwise. It is designed to stun, not kill and does not work acceptably on horses. With their long necks, aversion to objects intruding into their blind spot, and recessed brains, horses are far more difficult to stun than are cattle. Horses must be hit multiple times which is in direct violation of the 1958 Humane Slaughter Act. The guidelines on the bolt were written by veterinarians for veterinarians. According to the AAEP, the horse must be calm, sedated or humanely restrained, none of which occurs in a slaughter plant.
WALLIS SAYS – Require signage at auctions and sales facilities that do not have a $1,000 minimum bid requirement that indicate that horses sold may be processed.
THE REALITY – Similar signage already exists. This does not address horses that are stolen and sent to slaughter nor does it address the kill buyers that buy directly from unsuspecting owners posing as legitimate buyers. Many horses are bought by dealers at smaller auctions and resold to kill buyers at the larger slaughter auctions, leaving the owner with no way of knowing the fate of the equine they have sold.
WALLIS SAYS – Require that sellers to processing facilities present the plant, or a border inspector, with a document stating the seller consents to processing; if they have owned the horse less than sixty days (a “canner buyer”), they must present a similar document from the original seller, unless the horse was purchased at an auction with signage mentioned above.
THE REALITY – Who would monitor the validity of certificate and ownership of the horse? Who would verify that the horse taken to an auction was not stolen?
WALLIS SAYS – Require inspecting horses at the plant, and at international borders, and holding those with lip tattoos or microchips that match numbers or chips that an owner has registered with a national “do-not slaughter” registry. Such horses to be held for forty-eight hours to allow the owner to claim the horse by paying for costs.
THE REALITY – Why should the owner of a horse that has been stolen be required to pay costs to retrieve their horse? Who is going to pay for the creation and maintenance of a ‘do not slaughter’ registry? Since many horses pass through multiple owners in their lives, how is the original owner who specified the horse as nonslaughter going to be located in 48 hours?
The state of Texas implemented a “brand inspection” program at the Beltex and Dallas Crown slaughter plants specifically to assure that stolen horses be
identified and removed from slaughter. The state required the plants pay $2 per horse to the Texas Southwest Cattle Raisers Association for the service. In the years the program was in effect, no stolen horse was ever saved, though several were later determined from their hides to have been slaughtered.
What the H.O.R.S.E. Act does not do:
WALLIS SAYS – The H.O.R.S.E. Act of 2009 does not impede the market, transport, processing, or use of horses in any way. It does not take away the private property rights of horse owners. It does not eliminate the right of Americans to decide how, or if, they choose to market or consume horse meat. The Act will encourage and not defeat the efforts of states, tribes, and private citizens to implement services, facilities, and options for all horse
owners. Nor does it impose egregious financial and regulatory burdens on either horse owners or taxpayers to support unwanted, unusable, or excess horses.
THE REALITY – The HORSE Act of 2009 removes owner accountability and responsibility. The Act promotes irresponsible breeding which is a major contributor to the excess horses being produced every year.
Horses are not food animals in America. In all the years the slaughter plants were in operation, ALL the product was shipped and consumed overseas. There is no market in America and never did any anti-horse group ask that the meat produced be sold in America. This is nothing but another emotional argument by Sue Wallis to promote horse slaughter and create a market that does not exist at the cost of our equines.
Ending horse slaughter will not impede the market, transport, processing (for
non human consumption) or use of horses in any way.
Wallis proposes to use tax payer dollars to correct the many intractable issues inherent with horse slaughter. A much better use of the capital required would be to address what is causing the excess horses and establishing programs to help owners keep their horses so American citizens may enjoy and use them.
With the renewed removal of inspections for equines, Congress has once again sent a message loud and clear to the anti-horse proponents that American Horses are not food animals.
(to download a copy of this compelling document in PDF format, please click HERE)
Vicki Tobin/John Holland
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Categories: Horse News, Horse Slaughter, The Force of the Horse
Straight from the Horse's Heart 
WOW. Thank you Vicki, thank you John, thank you R.T. for reporting the much needed facts and thorough investigation of this bizarre woman Sue Wallis.
Sue was elected into her office by greedy, unstable, short sighted, self centered, thoughtless special interest groups (cattle association members, mineral mining corps, overproducing equine organizations). Though I do not want to dismiss the power her state post gives to her, perhaps Sue Wallis has no idea whatsoever that she may be nothing more than a little pawn in an ugly political game. No one in power really take her seriously. She has a false sense of pride and over inflated ego. She would be one of the first pushed under the bus if the house of very unsturdy cards (called the BLM & DOI) was knocked down. Sue Wallis is allowed to say all these nonsensical and translucent statements to detract the public from the big dogs doing evil, underhanded work.
Nice try Sue Wallis. Better switch teams before you go down with the ship. You all are depending upon the average citizen to be too dumb to see the forest through the trees, to be too overwhelmed with all currently on our plates and to be too lazy to do our homework & start questioning.
I am very thankful to WI Senator Feingold, He has been very impressed & influenced by the equines advocates in the battle to have S.1579 & S.727 & H.R. 305 passed and signed into law.
Thank you for allowing me to share my opinion on your blog R.T. Fitch.
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NICE…TRY…Vicki and John…. Better switch teams before you do down with the ship. you better get your people to so some home work and stop being so LAZY… you may be the FOREST… but WE are the TREES…
you did not shut down the SH in the US… USDA did that by not inspecting the meat… YOU DID NOT DO IT… slaughter is still legal here… and we will find away around the USDA… it will and can be done…. GO SUE AND BUTCHER
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“America will never be destroyed from the outside. It we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.”
Abraham Lincoln.
Angle Bentley —I recognize your name from postings you made on the Cloud WordPress blog. Sorry you did not stick around to continue reading all that has been shared on the subject of equine slaughter.
The subject is more than the superficial facts of the torturous death of equines & carving them up for dinner plates in Europe or Asia. There are deeper truths to be gleened. Why are governmental agencies at the Federal, State & county level tripping madly over themselves in red eyed eagerness for Mustang & Burro extinction? IF America is overpopulated with domestic horses needing homes, why did Texas just pass an incentive program to breed more horses? Why are they so hell bent on slaughter of animals American’s don’t even consume? Most Americans are born with the knowledge that horses are not food. Who’s pockets are benefiting? Where does the trail lead? Maybe Foreign enemies? What’s next? Dog & cat meat packing plants? There are certainly millions of unwanted Fluffys and Poochies in the USA. What negative effects will be realized on the world with the extinction of another wildlife species? What do these pro-slaughter folks want the public land for? Will any public lands be left after the hidden agendas are played out?
See what I mean Angle? Go deeper on the issue.
“To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.”
Sir Isaac Newton
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Angle Bentley – Who – or what – are you to write such insulting drivel on someone’s personal blog? You want to eat horses, fine. Go live in Paris and you won’t have a problem getting your gourmet horse meat. Not only that, we will be rid of you. Sounds like a win-win situation to me.
What are you going to do about the new EU regulations? Better get your counterfeiting equipment oiled and ready to go, ‘cuz you’re gonna need it. Since most American horses – not having been raised specifically for human consumption – almost certainly have been given substances that disqualify them from the food chain under the new rules.
Since you’re criminals anyway, you can probably find a way, but it’s sure going to add to the cost of your operations. Why do you think that cretin Butcher is wooing the Chinese? However, I doubt the Chinese want tainted meat either. Why don’t you just eat it yourself?
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Nevada Realist, Maybe YOU need to go back to reading class
“I am very thankful to WI Senator Feingold, He has been very IMPRESSED & INFLUENCED BY..IN THE BATTLE to have S.1579 & S.727 & H.R. 305 passed and signed into law.”
Sir/Madame, you will find NO ONE on these blog pages, perhaps with the exception of the “ever increasing new supporters”, thank you very much, who may still be learning, that does not know S.1579 has NOT passed Senate. As far as I know its still in Senate committee – not even in the Senate floor, so you even got that wrong. Thats ok, I get stuff wrong too, make some typos once in a while, well, actualy a lot, then correct course once I figure it out, find the truth. Try it some time.
American Wild Horses slaughtered for human consumption, or for any reason – Sue made a big, BIG, mistake getting her grubby little greedy sights on wild horses, all based on “personal property rights” and “what I do with my them is my business because they are my personaal property” – direct quotes (as best I can remember then). Dude or dudette, as the case may be, these horses are MY property! I will fight forever any law that you may do with them what you please. We will get rid of Burns rider. Burns rider = talk about dirty sneeky midnight, underhanded, cowardly, without the light of day politics! I say Un-American! This is the stuff movies are made of – and those movies and/or ocumentaries will be out one day, Sir/Madame, mark my words! And they will ruin all your reputations and any tourist business you may have. I was purposefully staying out of horse slaughter for human consumption of domesticated USA horses, as I believe, number one – this is the breeders fault and responsibility, and number two, I agree with you other cultures are not my business, unless they are eating MY horses – stolen, yes horse theft, BUT third, in general humane treatment is absolute. My only purpose had been to save Americas Wild Horses – guess what, I’m in ANTI-horse slaughter now up to my eyeballs. Ever heard the word BACKFIRE!
I’ll research again on those grazing numbers. Anyone else that can set this right one way or another? Links, refernces to documents? If we are wrong about something, we will accept that. So far none of your “camp” ever replies with links or references of where to find backup to what you say. Maybe you don’t mind doing that this time?
So documents on BLM, USDA, Universities, you name it, websites are only for the lazy and uneducated? Where do you propose I go for this so called education? I assure you, again you make an assumpion, which in this case only makes as ass out of you, because I am not lazy and promise I will read every word you send me to, if you have any!
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Sue Wallis has it RIGHT…. who are you Mr. Fitch to tell me how and what I can do with my horses?.. you people think you run the horse world… Fitch.. you cant even ride… And I am sure you not even fully a where of what end poop’s.
You will not stop slaughter for horses.. and we here in Montana will have our SH built and it will run… and then the unwanted horse will then be wanted.
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Angle, Don’t generalize Montana as everyone here wanting that inhumane practice of Slaughter. I live here too and there are many more of us who oppose it. I will make sure that we continue to fight Mr Butcher and Ms Wallis.
As for your comment on if someone can or can not ride. What does that matter? It just takes someone who knows right from wrong to see how the slaughter of horses really is.
And NO, YOU here in Montana WILL NOT have your slaughter house.
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hmmmm…. montana might want to focus on puttin’ money into some of them thar SCHOOLS before it thinks about building slaughterhouses….
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Folks;
I have allowed this individual’s comments to stand, here, as an example of the type of emails that I receive and posts that never make it to public view. Most of the time I intercept the posts more to protect the writer than the individual they are attacking, they just don’t have a clue how inane they come across.
Now this individual, for instance, is involved with, owns or has an interest in Quarter Circle ZW Ranch, located in Polaris, Montana http://quartercirclezwranch.synthasite.com/ . They “breed and raise the best of all worlds in NFQHA horses”. Their website is on a freebee server and not much in the way of professional with very few visitors. Does any of this come as a surprise to you, I think not.
These types of people will rarely attempt to hold an intelligent conversation with you nor do they have the capacity to state clear facts; they immediately go into attack mode and in so doing look rather foolish. The reason they press the red button and cheer degenerates like Butcher and Wallis on is that they know you are right and they have no defense. So in their blurred mind a strong defense is a quick offense, even if they don’t have any weapons, i.e. TRUTH.
So I will not respond to this individuals remarks as they don’t warrant the time of day and only prove that this “Angel?” knows little or nothing about the facts, or about me. When we write, we research, when this one wrote…well, its pretty obvious.
R.T.
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R.T., I posted on another post here about an organization called United Organizations of the Horse (UOH). They are pushing the H.O.R.S.E. legislation, and they have many state horse councils and other orgs that should know better on their rolls. They also have Sue Wallis. They had two very misleading articles in the last issue of the newsletter of the Indiana Horse Council. Boy, are they going to hear from me on this one.
These people are dangerous and don’t mind lying one bit.
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Angle, why don’t you talk to Michael Vick. Ask HIM is it’s okay to do anything you want with an animal because you own it. That has NEVER been the case, and it never WILL be. You never heard of animal cruelty laws?
Now, crawl back into your hole.
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I guess Rep. Wallis is either uneducated on horse slaughter or she has a few loose screws.
Either way, she has obviously not seen how horses are slaughtered or she would not be spewing such nonsense.
And, as for Angel Bentley, Ms. Bentley, I’ve been riding all of my life and you need to watch this, before you too spew nonsense: http://www.sharkonline.org/?P=0000000528 and http://www.hsus.org/video_clips/horse_slaughter_cruelty.html
Funny though, I didn’t know you had to ride to know when a horse is suffering. Do you ride?
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Oh, Thanks RT, Vicki, John and EWA for publishing this and bringing to the front the true meanings behind Ms. Wallis’s writings. I plan on posting this far and wide.
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Angle Bentley, where in this piece do you see anything from John or me regarding who shut down the plants? It is not surprising that yet another individual supporting horse slaughter couldn’t find a fact if it hit ‘em in the face. The slaughter plants were not shut down because inspections were removed. They were shut down by state laws – a 1949 law in TX and by a new law in IL.
The removal of funding for inspections does not end horse slaughter but it ensures that no equines will be slaughtered on US soil for human consumption. Horse slaughter for human consumption is illegal in the US. No animal can be slaughtered for human consumption sale without federal inspection.
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Wasn’t ending world hunger one of Sue Wallis’ wild, lunatic claims for why America should be pro equine slaughter? That horse flesh was a ‘nutritious’ resolution to the problem of third world famine?
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Angle Bentley, I think you might want to take your own advice and “do some homework”. Like Ed Butcher, you seem confused over why the US slaughter houses were shut down.
Butcher told the Montana assembly that it was because of environmental law suites from “two bit hippies” and that was the whole purpose of passing a law to protect any plant from such unfair attacks by Montana citizens. You, on the other hand, seem to think it was because of the federal funding being withdrawn for meat inspectors. As Vicki noted, neither is true, though they certainly did pollute and they were fighting the inspection issues in court. In truth they were doomed in multiple ways when the state laws closed them down.
Ed Butcher also bragged about his cozy relations with the “Belgians” who were just itching to build you your dream slaughter house. He did not know, or did not admit to knowing, that the Belgian operated plant in Canada had indeed been shut down by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (not generally regarded as hippies) for pollution and health issues just months earlier. They were dumping blood into a lagoon above the plant and even in the local river, and they were dumping mountains of offal onto the open prairie.
When former Kaufman Mayor Paula Bacon testified about similar problems her town had endured, Butcher claimed she was simply trying to raise the value of property she owned near the Dallas Crown plant. She owned no such land.
It is becoming increasingly clear that the Montana legislature is following a fool in Ed Butcher, and when you do that you inevitably begin to look foolish yourself. If the snub Butcher has received by the French and Belgians doesn’t convince his fellow legislators they have hooked their wagon to a crazy horse, nothing will!
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Vicki, John and RT, This is such important information for us to understand and use. The analysis of Sue Wallis’ Horse Act will help us deal with the ever aggressive yet dismissive people that have decided that we need to be doing things as if we are all in the 1800s. There is No Place in the modern world, in this nation for cruelty and irresponsibility to be passed into law. When it has happened it has created strong responses and opposition by good and open eyed citizens to correct the injustice. In the case of Butcher in Montana, I see that you cannot correct a mistake in law when the law is illegal. Eventually this will be played out and dissolved. How strange it must be to aspire to promote ignorance.
Glad you are all people who aspire to promote humane choices that are no smoke cover for anyone’s greed. mar
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Mar;
What a profound statement you just coined, “aspire to promote ignorance”! That tells it all.
Stunning, absolutely stunning!
R.T.
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RT, There is so much of it going around these days, So much. see what happens when i stay up too late? mar
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Our Wild horses are not unwanted, unused horses, sure they have one big, loud and presumptuous bunch of enemies, but our wild horses have never had the chance to be appreciated except in the best of places. Exceptions have not made the rule. The rule is all those other places that these animals have thrived without a lot of attention. They have been the innocents slaughtered. They have been a goal we dream of achieving. When people find the horse has given them a sense of power, Not Empowerment, they bring easy proliferation of domestic horses into our neighborhoods, thinking this is something They have done. The waste of domestic horse lives has been used to defame our wild horses. In a scenario that is begging to be set straight so that both domestic and wild horses will not have to suffer the cruelty of slaughter, this woman, Wallis, wants to fool horse owners into thinking slaughter is euthanasia. This double edged sword needs to be sheathed and education given light and strong emphasis, always. mar
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Yeah, I live a couple hours from Canon City, you shady little nobody. I will be adopting horses. I see you have said “…horses are 12 months… as is ALL OTHER WILDLIFE OUT THERE!!! Yes, our wild horses are reintroduced Native wildlife! I am glad you pointed that out. I have not blamed the cows, personally. I blame BLM and the ingrained system of back slapping good old boys. I live on a small ranch with horses in the San Juans in Colorado. Antelope are an animal I have studied in the field. What about them?? They keep coming up against more and more new fencing that ranchers put up. The whole picture for me is Y to Y with wild life corridors from Wyoming to the Yukon.
That is a big picture. You ever heard of it? mar
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I do wish your first name is Sue. Wallis or Cattoors would be fine. But I think you are just a wanna be who can’t use your real name like the rest of us.
RT, You are right, the attacks come from people like this… mar
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The fictionary world of Sue Wallis
Below an email of Sue Wallis, sent to me. It is a sad fact that she falls into the category of modern humans, who unlike indigenous people, view animals, in this case horses, as an inferior life form. She is a prime example of our current state of alienation between humans and nature/animals. Worldwide values have shifted, so did the beliefs toward exploitation of them and the rest of nature.
Animals have emotions, can feel grief, joy, pain just as we do… yet modern scientists or people like Sue Wallis dismiss this and ridicule it. Why this resistance ? If animals are seen as able to feel intensely and as equal to humans, they will have to be treated ACCORDINGLY. This would require a change in virtually every aspect of life, particularly the world of COMMERCE. If we conceded that animals could feel terror, grief, pain and depression… we no longer could EXPLOIT them so ruthlessly. Most of us here who know horse slaughter is wrong for many reasons, have been fortunate to experience a deeper connection with animals, such as our inborn intuition, our ability to communicate with them and in return receive their emotions. Intuition is the antithesis of logic, it is a spontaneous, inborn sense. As children we all used it freely. But as we grew up, we were trained to disconnect and become “logical”. Thankfully most of us are willing to stay connected and in tune with our animals, to use our innate ability to communicate and RESPECT them. Sue Wallis unfortunately is not amongst us. She is much like any exploitative outfit: pretentious, ignorant and deceptive for self-gain.
The corrupt and greed-based industries have perpetually implemented unspeakable suffering to animals. The status quo of such individuals can only be challenged by exposing them. This regrettable state of mind is clearly reflected in the email Sue Wallis sent to me recently. On 6/4/2009, Sue Wallis wrote:
Monika,
I have not personally witnessed the slaughter of horses, but I have witnessed all sorts of other kinds of processing plants, I know what happens there, and I have butchered almost all of the meat our family eats myself. I also have visited with a number of the veterinarians who went on the American Association of Equine Practitioner’s (AAEP) trip to inspect the Mexican horse processing plants. They were very impressed by the professionalism and the handling of the animals in both an European Union inspected plant, and in a Mexican government inspected plant. One fact that you should know is that currently ALL US horses that go to Mexico for processing, go to an EU inspected plant, without exception. That is the only way they get over the border. They are transported in specially designed trucks with all rounded corners, and the truck is sealed as it crosses the border and the horses have been inspected, and then a government/EU inspector breaks that seal at the processing plant. The horses are handled gently, and are only moved with flags, no hotshots, no abuse of any kind. At the plant, they are humanely killed—quickly, painlessly, and with an absolute minimum of stress to the animal—the AAEP vets were able to watch everything, go anywhere they wanted in the plant, and take pictures. The horses are not terrified. They are not abused. They do not witness the procedure happening to other horses. There is no screaming. There is no “coming back to consciousness while they are being cut up.” All sensation ends in less than 30 seconds. The veterinarians watched a good number of horses be killed, and reported that it was all done very well. Here is a link to the report in the Journal of American Veterinary Medicine Association from March, 2009, Horse slaughter conditions in Mexico explored by American Association of Equine Practitioners (AAEP) group.
Even at the Mexican government inspected plant, which of course, only processed Mexican horses, the veterinarians reported that the facilities were not quite as good, but that they did use a capture bolt mechanism, and that all of the horses they watched be killed there were killed humanely.
Because of these professional reports, and my own experience, I have concluded that the horrific videos of horse slaughter that are being smeared around the internet are either a:) a completely fabricated hoax designed to emotionally manipulate people like yourself who truly love and care for horses; or b:) filmed at some back yard “mom and pop” butcher shop that is completely unregulated, even by the Mexican government.
For most of us involved in agriculture, we believe that it is our moral and ethical responsibility to care for the animals we own. To us, a very humane death in a processing plant is far, far preferable to a miserable, and prolonged, and painful death of starvation and neglect. We would never allow this to happen to our horses. So, if we have a horse that we cannot use, or cannot sell, then the only honorable option is to put that horse down…to humanely kill it. We know that once a horse has been humanely killed, for whatever reason, for mercy or for processing, that once the horse is dead all legal, moral, and ethical obligations to the welfare of that live animal ceases. We believe that whatever happens to the carcass is entirely the right, responsibility, and prerogative of the owner. Period. For animals that have been trusted companions, loyal partners, and pets, this will generally mean a respectful burial or cremation depending on the owner’s philosophy and resources. For others the most appropriate option might be delivery to a rendering plant or a landfill. Rendering plants reduce animal carcasses to oils and useful by-products such as soap, glycerin, lubricants, inks, cleansing creams, shampoo, glue, antifreeze, explosives, and paints. Most small animal shelters utilize rendering plants for carcass disposal, as do livestock producers who occasionally have carcasses unsuitable for processing. Because horses are traditional food animals in most of the world, there is a viable export market for horse meat. Many horse owners either need, or wish to recoup the monetary value of their unusable horse, or a horse they can no longer support, and are comfortable with this solution; especially if they can be assured that their animals are humanely killed.
The American Veterinary Medical Association has approved three methods of humane euthanasia of horses: 1. Bullet; 2. Capture Bolt; and 3. Overdose of barbiturates. Of the three the captured bolt mechanism is the most reliable and certain. Our old vet who takes care of our horses will give a horse a lethal cocktail, wait until they start to go unconscious, and then puts a bullet in their brain because he has seen far too many of them not go down with just the drugs, and they flail around and suffer, so he makes it certain. But, you really have to know what you are doing to kill a horse with a bullet. It has to be very, very precise and in exactly the right spot—many, many people trying to do the “right thing” for their horses have been dismayed and emotionally traumatized because they were trying to honorably shoot their horse that they are emotionally attached to, and have to shoot them over and over and over, and they still don’t die.
So, for me, personally, providing that the horse that I have sold is not suffering (in which case I would put them down immediately here on the ranch), but if they are dangerous, untrainable, or otherwise unusable my myself or others, I would much prefer that they go to a US processing plant where I know it would be regulated by both the US government and the EU food safety systems, and would be humanely handled. It does not bother me, in fact, it suits my ethical view point that the carcass would be utilized very thoroughly to feed people, to feed other animals, and to produce many, many useful by-products. Other options just result in 1200 pounds of toxic waste and a disposal problem, and for people who make part or all of their living from horses, a complete and total financial loss. A humane processing option does provide some residual, salvage value that can be reinvested into productive, useful livestock. As it is, there is simply no market at all for unusable horses. Consequently the value of all horses, 98% to 99% of them that would never see the inside of a processing plant, and yet the value of all horses has plummeted by 30% to 80% nation-wide.
Basically what we have done by closing the US plants is take what used to be a valuable asset—something that you could take to the sale and get much needed cash for if you lost your job, or lost your home—and turned it into a very expensive liability with no options.
Another point that I would like to make is that no jurisdiction in this, or any other country, can let one specie reproduce to the point that they are destroying their resource base for themselves, and every other living creature, and are starving and dying—not feral dogs and cats, not deer, or elk, or bears, or wolves. And yet, this is sadly, exactly what is happening with the wild horses and burros on our public lands.
I really appreciate that you took the time to write and ask. I don’t think many people outside of the rural, agriculture world have heard, or understand our view point, or that we absolutely, unequivocally have the well-being of all horses in our hearts. Because I suspect that many people have exactly the same questions and beliefs that you do, I am going to post your question, and my response on our “frequently asked questions” page on our website.
Thanks,
Sue Wallis
Founding Leadership Team
United Organizations of the Horse
http://www.UnitedOrgsoftheHorse.org
307 680 8515 cell
307 685 8248 ranch
sue.wallis@vcn.com
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I am out of breath from that one…may I have and adult beverage, now?
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Thanks Monika, for printing Sue Wallis’ letter. It gave Sue a chance to completely discredit herself, all by herself. NO assistance needed. “I didn’t see anything. I don’t want to see anything. I don’t care. I never will care. Ignorance is sheer bliss.” Love her very first statement “I have not personally witnessed the slaughter of horses…” but she is willing to trust profound liars to feed her so called facts.
This was the same kind of questioning I posed to the BLM Press agent who called pens ‘pastures’. I asked, “have you personally gone to see what conditions are like in holding pens?”. He first threw the question back at me, but I live in Wisconsin. He then admitted that he has not but it’s not his field of knowledge. I suggested that he, just as a concerned American citizen should go see what they are like and THEN describe what he sees.
I have NEVER, EVER seen any animal ‘flail around and suffer’ because of an medically induced intraveineous euthanasia. If it was a pet, I held that beautful animal until the vet no longer heard a heartbeat INCLUDING holding onto my beloved equine’s neck until he went down to the ground. The I sat next to his/her face. The vet always administered the drugs in two stages so I had the proper time to say goodbye. With a farm animal, the results were always instananeous with the significant dose given. ALWAYS. And I do know how to put a horse down with a single shot (required training for the large animal technical certification I earned). Even during my poorest farming days, never did I considering selling an equine carcass ‘to recoup the monetary value’. That horse had repaid me over and over during his/her life.
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Monika, She really wants to convince. That is too bad for those who are uncertain and do not follow their instincts. mar
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My family has been raising top quality quarter horses for 25 years.With the closing of the slaughter plants it has totally killed are business.The prices we get now for our broke horses and weaners are less thsn a fraction of what we got 10 years ago.For example good quality weanlings brought 600.00 and up from there and my broke horses brought 2500.00 and up from there.Now the horses we have now weanlings are bringing 100 to 500$ and my broke horses 1000 to 2500.With out a slaughter plant it will kill the horse industry.If you can’t get rid of your old,crippled or bad horses for a fair price people are not going to replace them.That alone will break the families working hard to try to put good quality horses out there.Horse slaughter is a necessary evil,and with out will break many families, and cripple the whole industry.
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Rob, The nation is in an economic crisis at a time when we have many horses. I have seen this happen before in the late 70s into the 80s. It becomes a buyers market. You must immediately breed for fewer horses. No choice. Don’t you think the current economy has more to do with the price of horses than the availability of slaughter houses? Horses can and will still be put down without the slaughter houses. There are other options and we know that, even not including the vet, for those who have had to put horses down. A horses body may still be rendered for the zoos. Or cremated, or buried. Mar
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You can’t afford a vet to euthanize the horses that you continue to breed even when you know there is no market right now?
Sorry, but you don’t get a pass on animal cruelty either.
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Rob;
Slaughter has never gone away. Last year more American horses were slaughtered, across our boarders, then in years when the U.S. Blood Plants were open. (133,000 in fact) The proponents for slaughter just want you to believe that it is the lack of this sick practice on our U.S. soil that is driving your prices down while the rest of the populace is well aware that we are in the midst of one of the worse economic downturns in our nation’s history. (Horses are not a required “must” for most American households)
The issue of slaughter plants keeping the prices of horses higher is a myth and a very dangerous business model to follow. It’s as simple and basic as supply and demand. Too much product, not enough customers and the price drops…simple stuff. It has nothing to do with eating horses, there never was nor never will be any economic “silver lining” when it comes to horse slaughter. The horse is worth more to the community and area business alive versus the few measly couple of hundred bucks that the killer buyers pay.
So we embrace you as a friend and recognize that we need to help you to understand the true elements of this disaster and ultimately we may all find our way out of this dark tunnel to a new world on the other side.
Stay in touch.
R.T.
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Rob Burdick,
Beautifully and eloquently said. Sue Wallis has the courage to face a painfull issue that haunts us all. Horsemeat is delicious, 17000 kids died, today of starvation. One every five seconds.
Sue Wallis is not a coward, agree or not.
If you choose to hurt her, you fight me first. My Marine Corps sevice number is 2612933, In my first 90 days in Veitnam, I was ambushed 3 times. Compared to her, I am just another whiner. Like most of you.
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Rod McQueary,
Are you threatening American people with bodily harm just because they exercise their right to free speech & independent thought? So you are some big, tough Marine who has forgotten why he serves America and everything she stands for? Are you now an enemy of your own country you pledged to honor & defend?
“The right to freedom of speech is recognized as a human right under Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and recognized in international human rights law in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR). The ICCPR recognizes the right to freedom of speech as “the right to hold opinions without interference. Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression”
If that’s the case, that I have to be worried about a ridiculously left wing extremist blogger who threatens a terrorist like attack from behind a computer screen – then I am SO done with believing America IS the greatest nation in the civilized and industrialized world. Your remarks should be reported to your military commander and have you thrown in the stockage to cool your blazing heels. I don’t care if you are a retired vet or not. I KNOW plenty of vets as my family has quite a military history.
For crying out loud. Grow up and find a better hobby to occupy your time. Get help. Whatever it takes. Though I am passionate about saving Mustangs & Burros from unneccessary extinction, I sure as heck am not going to cause mental or bodily harm to another person to get the job done!
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Rob and Rod, Do you think there are enough horses in the US to feed starving people? Are they really the animal of choice to feed starving people? Goats are far better and do well in a wider variety of places. Horses raised here just for human consumption is not a great idea. The Heifer Project will get chickens and geese, rabbits, bees and so many other real farm animals to the far corners of the third world help people raise their own animals and improve their lives. Goats are the fastest growing segment of exportable livestock in the USA. Let them eat goat. It will likely be acceptable in whatever society needs them. Goat is good, too. Mar
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mmm. you like the taste of bute flavoured horsemeat, do you, mr. mcqueary? maybe some spiced with doxy? dewormer? maybe doused with a little pzp?
and just WHAT does slaughtering horses have to do with the thousands of kids dying of starvation? NOTHING! if our country was truly worried about finding a solution to the starving children in the world, and using MEAT to do it, then why aren’t they shipping them the flesh of deer? squirrel? pig? turkey? chicken? methinks there are more people in the world already eating the meat of these animals than there are eating the flesh of our horses.
we will fight you AND your wife, sue wallis, to the very end on this one, mr. mcqueary. we will do it for the horses!
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morgan, perhaps mr. mcqueary’s brain is a little addled from all the bute & dewormer he’s ingested from eating horses…..and perhaps he’s protecting his delicate flower of a wife, the oh-so-lovely (may i gag now?) sue wallis….need i say more?
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As a veteran of both Vietnam and Desert Storm I suggest that you stow your rifle and put a muzzle on the attitude. It’s a shame that your wartime experience touched you in such a manner as to fill your life, all these years later, with anger and ignorance.
Many of us walked away from the conflicts with a new awareness of the value of life and the true mission that we, as humans, have been charged with while we walk upon this planet.
It’s sad that even as we try to improve the the conditions for those who cannot speak for themselves we find ourselves battling ignorance, greed and sheer “bull headedness”.
Your message will remain, Mr. McQueary, as a reminder to all of what we face when moving our positive agenda forward, but a word of caution: this is no place to start a fight for if you attempt to do so, I will put you out of here so fast it will make your head swim. You cannot nor will not win a skirmish, battle or war. You are done.
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Rob – these city folk have NO CLUE – if they did, they would realize that horses are officially LIVESTOCK – just like a cow / pig / sheep / chickens, etc…. I doubt they have ever owned anything but a lawn ornament – I am sorry about your hard times and wish you the best of luck in the future – hang in there!! “They” are digging their own graves….
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Nevada Realist:
I am not sure how you came to pick your screen name. Have you even bothered to use your dictionary to properly define the word realist? I am of the opinion that your ‘realist’ viewpoint is terribly skewed by your personal and narrow perspective on world order. You choose your own brand of justice and morality with expectations that the entire world should bend to your will or the will of others you have joined forces with.
–noun
1. a person who tends to view or represent things as they really are.
2. an artist or a writer whose work is characterized by realism.
3. Philosophy. an adherent of realism.
–adjective
4. of or pertaining to realism or to a person who embodies its principles or practices: the realist approach to social ills; realist paintings.
A realist truly reviews all facts on a specific topic, studies all collected data independently, asks intelligent questions with unbiased mindset and then makes an rational & informed decision.
You draw your own conclusions here on this blog based on assumptions after reading bits and pieces of individual comments. The facts you have missed are overwhelming and too many to mention again. You have come to this blog with a mortal character that is inclined to fatal errors. You are holding fast to a stance that will prove to be your undoing, but, you don’t seem to care about your own demise as long as you go down feeling in the right. I type these words to you, Nevada Realist, out of sincere concern for your welfare. I would like to offer you opportunity to see that your leaders are betraying you and using you as a pawn in a ego manic, power tripping game. This game is costing the American citizens the sum total of their beloved nation’s parts bit by bit. All is NOT lost YET however. We must fight to keep the United States soverign and our leaders accountable to the combined will of the American people.
You call others on this blog “city folks” with the exception of the blogger Rob. Have you personally met and reviewed the bios of any of the other bloggers including Rob? Really, what would it matter if people are city dwellers? City dwellers are just as capable of intelligent, informed, independent thoughts on many current events facing this nation. Take the health care reform debate taking center stage at this time. The House of Representatives and the Senate are making decisions for ALL Americans right now that have far reaching effects that are possibly permanent. Most of the persons involved are likely city dwellers yet their choices will affect millions of rural American families. Should a Senator who dwells in the city be disqualified from the debate based on his/her residence or lifestyle?
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I wish I could somehow attach the letters sent to Sue Wallis to contest her views, made in a polite, thoughtful, respectful manner and her ugly, juvenile, inapproriate, untruthful letters back for you all to see. Sue Wallis should be voted out of office…I am ashamed have her as an elected official in the state I love. She does NOT represent the views of most of my neighbors and friends here in Fremont County.
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No one with their heads squarely attached to their shoulders thinks that honest folk like yourself would support Sue Wallis in any manner. My guess is… Sue Wallis was greased into office by special interest groups looking for a front man(woman) they could easily throw under a bus if necessary. Just my guess.
Hang on to those letters!!!!!!
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Can I drive the bus when the time comes?
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Suzanne:
Morgan says: For shame!!! What are thinking?
Translation: Get in line. Others called it way ahead of you and were hoping no would notice the string of folks chomping at the bit.
Reality: You are so funny! I was rolling on the floor laughing after I read your reply. Shame on me I guess. Especially for being a copy cat, huh?
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You mean I’m gonna have to fight all of you to get to be in the driver’s seat? Aw, shoot! Well, we could all RIDE in the bus – that would be almost as much fun.
Don’t say “Shame,” Morgan. I don’t feel the LEAST bit of it. I really do DETEST people like Wallis.
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I was joking Suzanne when I said ‘for shame’. It was playful tongue in cheek. Read the translation underneath.
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I knew you were joking, Morgan! You can’t fool ME. I KNOW you’d love to be driving that bus too. ;o)
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Dear Mr. McQueary,
You are an odd sort – I have former boyfriend’s and friends who served in Viet Nam. Branches were Marines, Army and Navy, and I know they saw a lot of horrific combat although none of them seem to ever want to discuss it. What I’ve heard that they saw was beyond unbelievable. In fact, one member of the Army told me that they knew they were going to be ambushed in the middle of the night when they could smell garlic.
But yet, you are happy to bring this up.
In any event, go back to school or do some homework at least on the horse issue, because no one is going to be feeding starving children $30 lb slices of horse meat.
Perhaps you should move to France, but I hear that they hardly serve horse meat in Paris any longer. Better hurry up and get there, before they ban it there too! It’s called evolution!
I don’t care what portion of the military you served in or when you fought, you are an idiot. Oh and yeah, my dad and uncles fought in WW II and the Korean War.
We love this country, we just don’t love neanderthals.
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OMG, somehow I missed this: My family has been raising top quality quarter horses for 25 years.With the closing of the slaughter plants it has totally killed are business
I thought I was going to be ill. So, let’s see, this other idiot, Mr. Burdick, says that without horse slaughter his business is going to die. How about let’s let his business die, instead of the horses that HE is breeding!!!
I’m appalled and disgusted. These are not sweaters you are talking about, they are sentient beings.
Please, get a soul, get some morals, get something that will help you to become a decent person.
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Idiot,the intelligence of you people appall us. I thaught this was an opinion blog not a little kids name calling game.I also think if people are starving to death they don,t care whether their meat comes from a bunny,goose,chicken,goat,pig or horse as long as they get their belly full.Now I don’t raise horses for meat,but if one of my horse is lame,mean or deformed in any way I would rather see it slaughtered and the meat used for starving people,prisoners,zoos or wherever it is needed.I have ate horse meat and it is good and if worse comes to worse and you guys get the borders closed,I,d better like because it is all we will have left too eat.Anyway with all you guys sitting in your offices,cities or wherever, you should try to solve your own problems first instead of ours.I have never been to a big city or traveled much out of Montana,but listening to the news with all the gang violence kids getting killed on their way to school and any other kind of violence you can think of.I think that you guys should get a hold of the reins of your own problems before you start trying to solve ours out here.
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Thanks for the post, Rob. But you sure call the ole kettle black when it comes to name calling, whooo weee you are wound up and you don’t have a clue as to who you are even talking to.
I am sorry that our intelligence appalls you as we try not to flaunt it (as much as we would like to)…maybe it’s just a curse as we use correct spelling and punctuation, speak in multi-syllable words, are NOT attracted to bright shinny objects and we don’t think that the Dewey Decimal system is one of Donald Duck’s nephews. For all of those indiscretions we do apologize.
For the record, horse meat is not fed to starving children but is a very expensive delicacy for rich foreigners, way too expensive for your average starving street urchin (that’s a child not a sea shell). And you cut your hearty and meaty list short; you forgot to include puppies, kittens, dogs, cats and other non-food animals. Are you aware of the fact that our Federal government does not recognize horses as food animals and that it is against the law to market, traffic and eat horse meat in this country. My Gosh, you broke the law. What ever shall we do.
Of additional interest to you would be the fact that the bulk of us do not live in the city and that we run farms and live in the country just like you. How do you think we maintain multiple horses…let’s see, I guess we would have to have acreage and grow grass on it. Oh my, I own a John Deere, please forgive me.
And speaking of Montana, my family lives in Montana (too cold for me) but I love the place none the less regardless of the fact that the state is run by a failed, do nothing Governor and that you elected a self-centered, politically incorrect thug like “Red” Ed Butcher into office…I guess you two really deserve each other. (Hope you enjoy those “Red” Chinese Communists he is courting to build a horse slaughter plant with no market and no legal way to ship the bloody horse meat)
So before you go off on a misspelled rant, again, do some research and have your facts straight so that you don’t come off like an uneducated rube as you give the rest of us farmers/ranchers a very bad name. (You make us look soooooo stupid, yup, yup.)
Use spell check and prosper.
Warning: STRONG RESPONSE TO FOLLOW!
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To Rob Burdick:
Your post says it all, now I know why Sue Wallis and all the other blood thirsty officials have gotten elected in your state.
Perhaps the Montana education system needs an overhaul, before anything else can be accomplished.
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Rob,
I won’t generalize the state of Montana, but I will surely agree with others who think YOU need to obtain a basic education first before you start ranting in public forums. Did you go to school and even try to learn grammer, spelling and punctuation? I hope the Montana education system is not indicative your lack of knowledge.
Perhaps Montana does need to focus on basic education provisions to their children instead of Mustang annihilation and horse slaughter. But then, the state of Nevada needs to focus on child abuse & child murder prevention and get their minds off bloody Mustang roundups and the ridiculous nonsense of Mustang relocation. Someone needs to tell Senator Reid that the child murder rate in his great state is the highest in the U.S.A. Children are dying all over Nevada at the murderous hands of parents and other adults. Does anyone in authority care at the state level? Mr. Big Shot Harry Reid doesn’t give a rats fanny. He just wants his name up in lights for all the world to see how he was the driving force behind health care reform. Um, Mr. Reid. If the children are being murdered before or after their birth, who will be around to give your so-called health care reform to?
Then there is Nebraska. Are there purposed Salazar/Abbey Mustang and Burro horse pranks (oh, parks I mean. Sorry.) in that state? Are their thousands in BLM Mustang prison camps in Nebraska. Someone needs to remind the state leaders that Nebraska leads the U.S.A. on child abandonment. There are more children in foster care or homeless in Nebraska than anywhere else in this country.
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Rod McQueary:
Rob Burdock:
Horsemeat DOES NOT save people in third world countries from starving to death. WAKE UP! GET A CLUE! You (and thousands more) are being lied to by federal BLM and DOI employees and their supporters from the cattle, mining, energy and big game hunting industries. C’MON! THINK MAN! USE YOUR HEAD! What does the wealthy diner pay in Asia and Europe for his horsemeat steak? $20, $30, $40 per pound? The horsemeat industry is highly lucrative and caters only to the rich? Do you think for one nanosecond that those getting fat & sassy off the wholesale or retail sale of horsemeat give a rat’s patootie about starving individuals in ANY country on the planet? If they did, ASIA would not have a million children going to bed hungry at night. Do you know how many thousands of children are orphaned in Asia? Do yah? Huh? Do yah? Ask those orphanages what the government or local agencies give to support the orphanages. Rice, beans, and substandard powdered milk that causes kidney failure. The orphans are tied to their cribs with very little human interaction because of lack of workers. Don’t give me or any other intelligent blogger on this site, the disgusting tripe of using horse flesh to solve world hunger. You are deceived bucko. Get your head out of the sand and actually use your eyes, ears, mind and heart to SEE for yourself the truth of what is happening in this world. Why on earth do you think southern Florida has a rash of unsolved pet equine slaughter crimes going on for the last few years? The butchers are sneaking into barns and pastures at night to slice up pet horses to sell the best of the meat for the black market buyers.
If tainted horsemeat is sold and consumed, YOU WILL be overtly responsible for the horrors to come in the future when more illness, sickness and disease is found in humans being. Think the FDA & USDA are the cure alls and end alls? Yah right buddy. Think again. Ever heard of the drug Thalidomide? Do you know what that drug did to the preborn 50 years ago? The FDA approved that too.
You and other like you continue to give America a bad name in light of education, common sense and the ability to have individual thought. Other countries laugh at us and sometimes rightly so. You, gentlemen, CHOOSE to be a sheeples who will swallow any convenient lie that fits into your world of laziness and apathy. Keep up your attitude and you become a slave to a system of other’s telling you what to do day in and day out. Then you will wake up, realize your sad mistakes and wish you had listened to the wisdom of people urging you out of your mirey pit of complacency. If you choose to wallow like a pig in the muck, eventually you will be given a life to fit your behavior.
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No need to slam everyone that lives in Montana MJNYC. We are not all like Mr. Burdick. There are a lot of people like myself who are fighting this battle and are very passionate about it. BTW Sue Wallis is an elected official from Wyoming, not Montana.
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Mr. Burdick, you sound like you care for your horses. That being said, if your horse was lame or ill, I would suspect you would try to heal him. At some point in his life, he would have received Bute. The drugs you would use are explicitly banned for food animals so your horse would not be eligible for slaughter. It is also illegal to send a horse to slaughter that cannot bear weight on all four legs.
I would also ask you how, in good conscience, you could trailer a lame horse, truck him to an auction and force him to stand lame for hours on end? Then have him herded with dozens of horses, crammed into a double decker trailer and trucked to a feedlot or slaughter plant. You would rather do that then spend the cost of one more months care to have him humanely euthanized?
American horses are not food animals. During the beef boycott, horse meat rotted on the shelves. Our horses are raised, like dogs, to be sport, work, therapy, performance, service and companion animals. Livestock are raised for food and do not perform any of the functions in our society that horses perform. There are no cows running in the Kentucky Derby earning millions of dollars. No cow was ever named athlete of the year. Mounted policemen are not riding pigs. Military and presidential funerals do not have sheep in the precession. I have yet to see a riderless cow. The statues of our soldiers are not atop cows. Livestock are not having break-throughs with the autistic nor are they used in therapy to help our soldiers returning with head injuries, regain their balance. Our American horses are.
We do not condemn nor wish to change the foreign cultures that eat horse meat. They are free to eat what they choose and if they want to eat horses, they can butcher their own. Our horses are not raised or bred to end up on some elite foreign diner’s plate.
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To: Sandy Elmore,
My apologies, you are absolutely correct. I just hate to see people like Ms. Wallis and Mr. Butcher in charge of anything.
My sincere apologies and happy holidays. We will end the brutality that is horse slaughter and save our wild mustangs. I have to believe that good does win over evil.
Best
MJ
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Rob Burdick, Angle Bentley and pro-slaughter
I hope you read all of the box warning labels on the drugs you give to your horses. Did you know that phenylbutazone (bute) was marketed in the United States for people with Rheumatoid Arthritis (RA) in the early 1950s? It was touted to be superior to aspirin as a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory (NSAID) drug to treat RA. Within three years of humans taking this drug, side effects began to appear in the medical literature. The major adverse effect is bone marrow suppression. That is, blood elements made in the bone marrow were no longer formed. This medical condition is known as aplastic anemia. Others had selective bone marrow suppression. This medical condition is known as agranulocytosis. These blood elements fight infection (granulocytes). Over 50% of the people who developed agranulocytosis and 94% of the people who developed aplastic anemia died. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) added a box warning to phenylbutazone in the mid-80s and the drug was finally taken off the market for human use recently.
In a recent survey, 80% of the horse owners indicated that bute is their drug of choice to treat musculoskeletal injuries in their horses. I am sure you know why horse owners choose bute. Bute is cheap and an extremely effective NSAID. In fact, I don’t know of an adult horse who didn’t get bute at sometime during its life. Do you?
So, my question to you and your horse slaughter advocates is this: do you really want to poison human beings?
One more thing. All of us know that the press releases sent out by the public relations pro-slaughter industry with emotional and sensational titles are nothing but bunk. That is, they are nothing but misleading statements and lies hoping to dupe the uneducated, the uninformed and the ignorant.
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Well said Ann. Bravo.
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I would like to no the plan on how we take care of all of the access horses with out slaughter plants or selling them accross the borders.An average horse is around 1200 lbs.Where is the money going to come from to feed them and care for them.They are not dogs and cats they are livestock when they are old and cannot do the job we need them for what do we do with them.I my self cannot afford to pay a vet or a back-ho service or feed one that is not useable anymore.Another thing it is almost impossible to give a horse away,and if you guys don’t believe that try it.As far as blm horse are conserned they are a inbred farrow animals that take up range the cattle should be on.With saying that they also have no shots or any foreign chemicals in their bodies.They are the ones that need to be rounded up and fed to starving people.I would like to know how many of you have seen wild horses I have first hand seen the damage they do to the land,fences,and private ranches.With doing this they cut themselves break legs ect.and suffer and die,and believe me they don’t die slow it sometimes takes weeks.So tell me whats worse over population starving to death,and therefore eating the grass that ranchers have been raising cattle sheep ect.With the population of people growing every day,and land getting developed there is not enough land to go around for all of your plans with out hurting peoples livings and their livelihoods.Get out of your glass houses,horses are starving to death all over this nation who is cruel me for wanting horse slaughter or you guys ignoring whats going on.
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I am that private person running cattle,and you do not have a clue.
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Yes Rob, I do have a clue. My son and grandkids raise some beef cows and calves on our Pennsylvania farm. We do not have the advantage of acres of Public Land for grazing of our animals. We had to buy the land, pay the taxes to raise these animals. The grazing fees charged on Public Lands do not begin to approach the “real expense” that farmers and ranchers pay who do not have this “subsidized” real estate. The majority of beef raised in the USA comes from the mid-west and the east. I agree that there is not big money in beef production but the big corporations using our Public Lands are probably getting a big tax write off against their “real businesses” like mineral and gas production.
As for sending third world people horsemeat, might I suggest a better idea–the Heifer Project. Heifer Project is based on the premise that to give a person a fish you feed him for the day, teach a man to fish you feed him for a lifetime. Heifer Project builds substanibility in not only third world countries but here as well. Animals that are provided are bred and the young are “passed on” to neighbors in need. Don’t you think this is a much better approach than sending horse meat to poor people?
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Rob, your privately owned cattle belong on YOUR privately owned property. Had the horses been left alone and managed on the land legally belonging to them, it wouldn’t have escalated to this point. You don’t want to share the land, you want it all. 7.5 million privately owned cattle on public lands that don’t pay enough to cover an EA. And you and your fellow ranchers have the nerve to say that 20,000 horses is a population out of control? Your cattle are decimating the ranges.
Why is it, Rob that every effort to make life humane and better for the horses – be it ending slaughter or letting the Mustangs live on their land – always leads back to cattle ranchers? All you are doing is angering everyone to the point they’re starting to call for a beef boycott. Is that what you want? Do you want us to put the word out that until you back off the Mustangs and quit paying off legislators to block the horse slaughter legislation that we aren’t going to buy your products? We’re almost there, Rob. Just keep pushing us and you’ll see Moratorium Part 2.
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Vicki Tobin: The Taylor Grazing Act was made law WAY before the 1971 Wild Free-Roaming Horses and Burro Act so no, Rob (if he is a permittee) has every right to pay to use public land (just like you and me can purchase a permit to use public lands if we want) – the difference is these permittees only get to put their cows out maybe 3-6 months out of the year and ONLY if there is enough water / forage to support them otherwise, if they want to keep their permit, they still have to pay for the allotted AUMs whether they are able to use them or not – otherwise the permittees can and will be fined (or their cattle confiscated).
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Hey, Real ~ Grazing on public land is a PRIVILEGE not a RIGHT. That goes for you and everyone else. Some of you Nevadans need to get REAL. I don’t care how long you’ve been on the land, it does NOT belong to you – it belongs to everyone. And yes, the Taylor Act was way before the 1971 Act. So? What’s your point? Do you know that there are petitions circulating to ban tax payer subsidized grazing on public lands? If I were you, I’d calm down a little bit and not give them any more ammo than they already have.
http://www.publiclandsranching.org/book.htm
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Your permits are for “leases” not “ownership” there are no “forever” “rights” implied in them -I suggest our read your permits.
Just because they were extended this year, does not mean they have to be extended when their time runs out. Additionally the Fed Gov has the right to relocate you to “similar” land anyway, at any time – read the law. Read your own stuff before you declare your “right” to pulbic land.
The term “public Land” might be a clue!
And here is a news flash for you – newer laws, unless they specifically say so, take away the power of previouse laws.
You might try reading the environmental act, that is passed (renewed with changes) every year , where Obama pretty much left in all of the Bush Era crap, but watch out in future years!
Or else lets just ignor Burns because it was passed AFTER 1971? Uh uh.
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Still all the BS aside where is the money going to come from to feed all of the abandoned horses. There is not one question I have asked that has been answered.
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Rob,
Here is your answer. Check on the Appropriations Bill (the fiscal year 2010 budget) for the Department of the Interior passed by congress in September of this year.
Click to access Interior_FY10_Conference_Summary.pdf
The Dept was given a 50% increase to support the Bureau of Land Management’s long term & short term holding prison pens for Mustangs and Burros around the USA. The BLM whined and complained about their operational costs. So Congress gave them 150% more money that in fiscal year 2009. Now, UNDERSTAND THIS FACT! The BLM refuses to give an accurate headcount of Mustang and Burros in holding pens. The BLM refuses to allow an independent census of the headcount. NO ONE knows IF an increase in the BLM budget was justified. NO ONE knows IF Mustangs and Burros even exist in holding outside of the DOI, BLM and their insane buddies. Sure, people can visit the short term holding pens and see a few thousand Mustangs. Burros – nope. Not a one. Can the public view long term holding? Not a chance.
Now would you or I EVER, EVER get a raise from our bosses we had not met any of our performance goals? Would our bosses give out big fat bonuses if we could not justify our work? Would our business’ pay us double or triple overtime for working on weekends or holdiays when the work could have been done during normal business hours? Would the company look the other way and laugh it up if they found us to be wickedly deceptive & pathological liars behind the bosses back?
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Rob, my suggestion is that it comes from you –
Take your cattle off and put them on your private land, then move all those captured horses back where they belong, and wala, they are fed for ZERO dollars.
You run cattle on public lands, so you are biased. And I understand that, change would cost you money. Guess what dude – I just took forced early retirement, half income now due to economy, along with almost half of my co-workers. I’m better off than most who are not 62 yet, or who just got laid off with no retirement. So you must understand how hard it is to talk to someone such as yourself who is stealing my tax dollars by leasing public lands for a pitance –
The whole BLM business is a tax rip off scheme – take the horses land and forage, “give it away” to some cattle ranchers, along with tax right offs (my tax dollars going directly to you!) – now if that doens’t stink of something bad enough for you, then spend millions upon millions of taxpayer dollars and “give it” to helicopter pilots, round up crews, to private land owners to hold the horses (not for a pitance), to whoever they buy the feed from, etc. etc.
Dont’ you see you are being robbed too? Ha, the robber is getting robbed!
Even if I did not give a hoot about wild horses, this government program to line the pockets of a few has to be stopped. And lets not forget about the overtime for BLM as they seem to love to do these roundups on holidays – don’t they have families to be with?
And thanks to you and Rod and Angle for continually strenthening my resolve.
SAVE THE WILD HORSES!
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Roxy – wild horses are NOT a natural part of the environment!! Let’s at least start there….
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Mr. Fitch:
I didn’t know you had to monitor this board; although I understand the requirement. Frankly, the more you allow posts from individuals that do not support our position, the better. Very rarely have I read a prodlaughter for human consumption post that is articulate, factual, unemotional and frequently, uninvolved in the meat business.
Mr. Burdick: You don’t have to feed OR starve them…just stop popping them out in down economies for a luxury item AND learn how to call the vet, knacker and/or the backhoe or “proteins truck” operators. But you see, you and I know that COSTS money; it doesn’t put any in your dysfunctional economic pocket.
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Please, call me R.T.
We have installed filters that will pull out posts with cuss words and the like, but verbal assault can still sneak through so I watch. In fact, folks like yourself usually send me an email saying “there’s trouble on the blog”.
Now I really don’t know where to go with this “Rob”. You take the time to explain things, in detail, and he just lumbers on as if he never heard a word that anyone said. You will find that ALL anti-horse people are afraid of the facts and shun the truth because they know they are wrong. The U.S. public has shown them that they are wrong, the U.S. Congress has showed them that they are wrong yet they continue to stumble down a path to nowhere with blinders on and cotton stuffed in their ears. I am afraid that this one might be a lost cause. But at least you all are giving it a shot.
Be safe.
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R.T.:
Sadly, they aren’t afraid of anything…including their Maker. They are not afraid of facts; they are afraid of change and accountability on this planet (control freaks with a hyper-greed gene)…note how they are ALL against NAIS. One would think they would be highly vigilent of their on-planet behavior considering the after-life accountability/roll call-check lists.
They do it because they can, are allowed to and roll merrily along. As an example, the 1971 ACT; it was violated repeatedly from the get-go. BLM is shocked and dumfounded at all the stink. Afterall, they’ve been allowed to do what they want since the mid-1970’s. I fault States and Congress.
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Rob, think about what you are asking. You are shooting down your own argument. You said we need slaughter because of all the abandoned horses. Slaughter is still thriving. Same auctions, same kill buyers. The slaughter count last year was the second highest since 1995. So if slaughter prevents abandonment, how can there be any abandoned horses? Why weren’t they sent to slaughter?
You see, your argument doesn’t hold water. Again, I ask. Where is owner accountability? If there are abandoned horses, shouldn’t you be going back to the owners of those horses? Oh, wait. You have no way to find out who owns those horses, but you want to send them to slaughter without knowing what drugs they have been given. If you can’t find the owner, how are you going to certify that those horses haven’t received banned substances? Do you care more about the $300 blood money than the well being of the humans that will consume their meat? As far as the Mustangs, your side keeps saying they are feral. If you really believe that, then again, how can you certify they are drug free?
This is what happens when you use arguments that are smoke and mirrors. The anti-horse arguments, be it slaughter or our wild ones, have no facts to back them. You dismiss the facts as BS which is your way of saying that you don’t want to provide facts or discuss the real issue behind horse slaughter.
BTW-let us know where those abandoned horses are and we’ll investigate. The majority of the sightings that have been investigated were false – either no report whatsoever or the horses(s) had wandered off the owner’s property.
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Mr. Burdick:
If you had an intelligent answer CBG’d into your brain, you still wouldn’t recognize it, much more agree. I’ve seen many here and you still refuse acknowledgement (very Wallisesque btw). Not a problem Sir. We will mow you over (eventually) just like other’s passionate and concerned became about racial civil rights, sufferage, poverty, right’s of workers, consumer rights. Overcoming injustice is a passion, maybe even a religion Sir. Greed and irresponsibility are vices.
It will happen, Sir…it will happen; it is just a matter of time.
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I am not just talking about abandoned horses.I am talking about all horses abandoned,lame,mean,wild it doesn’t matter you can’t save them all.Horses are private property and it should be up to the owner wether to save to them or send them to slaughter.It’s not your business or mine to try to change that.As far as breeding horses it has been my living for most my life.We strive to breed safe,trainable,and intelligent horses,and in my business if they don’t fit that category they get put down or sent to slaughter.I do not want anybody to own them.Another thing I will not stop breeding quality horses.We have a life time of work and money invested,and to stop breeding horses because of a bunch animal activists is rediculous,and a invasion of privacy.
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Neither are we, Mr. Burdick – a horse is a horse and you should not breed or buy one unless you are willing to take responsibility not only for its life, but also for its death. Slaughter is NOT euthanasia. If you’re stupid enough to breed horses that you can’t sell, well, that’s your business. All we’re saying is that you are obligated to give them a humane end to their lives. Slaughter is beyond inhumane, it is horror.
As for expecting you to treat ANY of your animals humanely – that is NOT an invasion of privacy. It is the LAW. I guess it was an invasion of Michael Vick’s privacy to stop his dog fighting operation, right?
Come on! You CAN’T really be this dense!
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Saturday, December 26th… A ranch from Wyoming dumped 25 horses off at the feed lot in Wilton. Registered quarter horses, and in the group were 6 pregnant mares. I found out about this way too late. The 25 horses had already been processed to Mexican slaughter.
But now word comes of another ranch from Wyoming. Bringing at least 20 of their horses to Wilton. This is suppose to take place New Years Weekend. At least 5 of the mares are said to be pregnant.
Ranches from Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, and Nevada. Culling their stock. Dumping their horses in Turlock, Pittsburgh, Wilton, and Vallejo. Mostly quarter horses and paints. Horse killers paying $50.00 and $60.00 per horse.
Tbfriends stands for Thoroughbred Friends, which means we rescue thoroughbreds. But lets be honest. There is a bigger market for quarter horses. At least twice a day there are phone calls asking if I have quarter horses?
So now confusion sets in. Probably the reason I flunked a marketing class in college. If quarter horses are in demand, or at least marketable, why are they the majority at feed lots? Quarter horses the number one breed sent to slaughter.
Why are other states selling their quarter horses to California horse killers? Why use a middle man? Why not deal directly with Mexico themselves?
I have asked these questions to those who operate horse auctions. They all say because it is a numbers game.
Quarter horse ranches in America love to breed. 300,000 foals a year.
I wonder, why did I flunk the marketing class? Even I can figure this out. Registration. Breaking and training. Vet bills. Feed. By the time a quarter horse is 3 or 4 years old, you easily have ten grand invested. All of this, so you can ship to California and sell him for fifty bucks?
Well anyway… maybe we should change our name to Horse Friends. The past couple of years, we have branched out to other breeds. I can find a new home for a tall warmblood jumper in less than 5 seconds. In 2009 we have placed 40 quarter horses, at least. A dozen paints and appys. A few arabs. We kept Raider, an arabian gelding my wife is having a blast with.
I suppose the economy is easy to blame. All these unwanted horses. Race tracks closing down. Ranches in foreclosure. Private owners losing their jobs.
Some say 2010 will bring better times. Some say 2010 will suck worse than 2009.
Horses could care less about war, home foreclosures, and unemployment. Horses hardly give a hoot about a decent health care plan. They only wonder, where is that old guy with food?
2010 is going to be better for horses. You heard it here first…
Joe
From a post from Vicki. Mar
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Rob, I agree, horse business is horse “business”. And they are your property. And what you do with them is your business, as long as it is humane, and as long as it is YOUR business. Horse slaughter, therefore, appears to me to be just the last squeeze of a few pennies out of that animal’s usefulness to “business” minded people. I personally don’t see any difference in “horse business” than scummy puppy mill business or scummy backyard breeders – horse, cat and dog “business” in general, but that is just my opinion.
I would require breeders of all animals to post a euthanasia “bond” for every animals eventual end and every breeder (not an employee) would be required to spend one day a month at their local shelter, for no pay, euthanizing animals – why am I paying my tax dollars to clean up your “animal breeding business” mess? And I suffer for those people who have those jobs, again cleaning up your “business” mess at tax payer expense. I know someone who did that when they were in an employment jam and they never got over it.
Rob, Why doesn’t your “business” come up with a way to humanly slaughter these creatures, if you insist, instead of blaming anti slaughter people for pointing out the horrors and inhumane practices?
Anyway, MAINLY, KEEP YOUR BLODDY SLAUGHER HANDS OFF OUR WILD HORSES! They do not belong to you – they are not YOUR “business” – so just stay away from them! None of your statements about them are true, go to the many links on The Cloud Foundation and here and enlighten yourself, shrug off the eons old rhetoric, analyze the science and economics, and think for yourself – maybe you’ll join this movement!
Folks, other than Rob and Angle, ever notice these opponenets ask us for proof, which we gladly give them links all over the place, but they never reciprocate (with a few exceptions – which have turned out to not quit fit anyway) – this should be the first clue to any thinking person.
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I don’t want anything to do with your inbred wild horses.All you have to do is trap a couple wolf packs maybe even some grizzlies like they did here.I guarantee with in ten years or so they will destroy your wild horse herds just like they have destroyed our elk,deer and sheep populations which are not farrow animals like wild horses,and that is documented.That way you guys won’t have to slaughter them,and think you are doing right just like you are now.
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Rob,
Hmmmm. Don’t want anything to do with our so called inbred wild horses. Hmmmm. You think you have so much more real world sense than all of us put together, I am willing to bet. Question for yah. What in the world are you DOING, wasting your precious time stalking us all on our wild horse advocate blogs? Hmmmm mister smarty pants? Behind that flimsy computer screen you are a big shot. A big shot who can’t write the most basic sentence in English with structured grammer and correct punctuation. Will you even be around in 10 years to make good on your guarantee on Mustang herd destruction by wolf or grizzles? Maybe the bets should be on WHERE YOU will be in ten years with such a foul attitude such as yours. C’mon Rob. Give it a rest, why don’t you. You will feel much better and maybe live longer.
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Rob, you are such a delight! Please don’t go away.
Yes, I’m glad you like DNA documentation – that the current American Wild horse is 500 to 200 years old – and not inbred. And that the current American Wild Horse is indigenous to North America – Merriam-Webster: a small hardy naturalized horse of Unites States western plains directly descended from horses brought in by the Spaniards. Wikipedia: …Ancient DNA studies have shown that the wild ancestors (Equus ferus ferus) of all modern domestic horses originated on the North American continent. Primitive horses lived in North America in prehistoric times… (Naturalization, Merriam-Websters: to bring into conformity with nature, to cause..to become established as if native).
Unlike some of my friends here I don’t even mind if you call them FERRAL (not FARROW, but I knew what you mean) – I am quite comfortable and confident in the fact that they are a RE-INTRODUCED INDIGNOUS, NATIVE SPECIES. Before you say they ruin the eco system – let’s suppose we were cattle ranchers around the late 19th century when there were estimated to be anywhere from 1 Million to 2 Million wild horses, along with Buffalo (and Elk, sheep, deer, all those you mentioned seemed to coexist very well with the wild horses), we would have had to turn our cattle around since the range was so ruined and barren. Hum? Gives one pause to ponder a while.
Anyway, please do provide links to your scientific evidence that they are inbred – not according to BLM and many other independent researchers as well. But I’d love to see what you have.
Natural Predators YES, great ideas – see we are in agreement! However, I think your stats are a little off – If you were to be correct, then before man settled the west there would already have been no horses as to quote you “I guarantee within ten years or so they will destroy your wild horse herds just like they have destroyed our elk, deer and sheep populations”.
What all do you think was balancing the ecosystem 200 to 500 years ago, long before white settlers came along?
How many hunting permits are still issued every year if your elk, deer and sheep are all gone? Hum?
Was it natural predators that destroyed the Buffalo too? Hum?
Wikepedia:
Sheep (you probably meant to say bighorn sheep) … from the wild mouflon of Europe and Asia.
The bighorn sheep originally crossed over the Bering land bridge from Siberia… the population in North America peaked in the MILLIONS, and the bighorn sheep entered into the mythology of Native Americans. However, by 1900 the population had crashed to several thousand. Conservation efforts (in part, by the Boy Scouts) have restored the population.
Rob, was that crash in bighorn sheep the 1900s due to some bizarre increase in grizzly and wolf (Wait a minute – Europeans had already eradicated them by and large), or perhaps from human hunters?
Elk are almost identical to red deer found in Europe, of which they were long believed to be a subspecies; however, mitochondrial DNA evidence from 2004 strongly suggests they are a distinct species. Elk range in forest and forest-edge habitat, feeding on grasses, plants, leaves, and bark. Although native to North America and eastern Asia, they have adapted well to countries where they have been introduced, including New Zealand, Australia and Argentina. Their great adaptability may threaten endemic species and ecosystems into which they have been introduced … Elk are susceptible to a number of infectious diseases, some of which can be transmitted to livestock (Never states indiginous origins).
Rob, before you say horses threaten endemic species and ecosystems or are susceptible to diseases you know I will require links to your evidence. My evidence that these are untrue are from Gus Cothran, Craig Downer and many others (including Ken Salazar, said the horses would greatly improve the land in the east and midwest) – you can find those scientific links at The Cloud Foundation.
Grizzlies and wolves, yes, lets return them! Again, I’m glad to see we are coming together! I’m not even going there as to whether they are indigenous, native or naturalized or came across the Bering straight.
But I will throw in Cattle – Cattle INTRODUCED SPECIES from …Europe …Africa…Asia… (which have destroyed and continue to destroy whole ecosystems since introduced)(and which are being recalled by USDA more and more frequently due to disease)
Marilyn Wargo has already commented on riparian benefits from Elk, as I would suggest also from Wild Horses. As my background is in the fire service, I see great benefit to wild fire fuel loads being contained by wild horses as well (several sites have before and after shots of both horse and “goat” benefits – just google).
Rob, now lets be clear, I’m talking about American Wild Horses, found primarily in isolated rugged areas that a domestic horse could not survive, and not any that some rancher has thrown out to the mercy of nature or someone picking them up and saving them, which they would stick out like a sore thumb and would have been noted regularly over the last 40 years by someone! Consider the small stature and short spine of the American Wild Horse – also often referred to as “ponies” and “mustangs” – you must have seen them in Parades and such – if not take a look at the Cloud series on PBS, when they are side by side to the wranglers Quarter Horses.
All done – lengthy, but I wanted to give Rob all the info. and where it comes from.
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Oh, so that’s what he meant by “FARROW”! He lost ME on that one! LOL!
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According to Wildlife Management agencys, wolves have been a success story. Elk have benefitted from them greatly and have cut down on riparian damage so that many smaller species can return to riversides where wolves are present. The sheep have been killed mostly from the secretive Research Station. Private sheep and cattlemen have their verified kills compensated by Defenders of Wildlife. As far as I know, there are no grizzly in horse country or vice versa. The best management for wild horses has been with natural predation so wolves, black bear and mountain lion would be better than PZP and unadopted horses selling to killer buyers. Bring on the predators. We could build great wild horse management with them.
Rob, You sure do go on a bit without saying very much. Mar
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Apolgies Mar, I did mis understand your point about the elk and wolves and made an incorrect conclusion to compare to benefits of wild horses;
That being that they assist to keep down wild fire fuel, without damaging the water sources, etc.
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You guys could write a book and not say anything.I move and pack salt to cattle on a over 200 sections of forestland,and all by the use of horses by the way.In the past we used to see elk,deer,sheep,and alot of bears grizzly and blacks almost on a daily occurrence.Since the wolves have been introduced the last two years we have seen very few elk and no deer.This summer I seen forty head of ewes and only 2 lambs in one herd.Now with that I see wolves almost daily they have run the elk deer and bears out of the mts,and on to the ranches on the flats.Now with doing that the bears hit the cattle and therefore get in trouble and are shot or trapped by the fish and game.Now if that is not throwing off the balance what is.I don’t have to look at your websites to see whats happenning I live here and see it in person every day.I think you should get out of the front of your computers,and come out here and see whats happenning,but I doub’t it you would have to remove your blinders for that.Another thing domestic horses are tougher than you give them credit for.My horses run out in open all winter they don’t have a barn wind break or are fed hay,and they get along just fine.Out here we have allready seen 30 to 40 below zero a couple of times with wind.With that they winter just fine and come spring are just as fat as the horses I have been feeding at home.Now you guys are going to think that is probably cruel,but if you look at my horses you will see a happy bunch of fat horses.So don’t tell me they arn’t as hardy as your wild horses any horse can adapt to their surroundings if given a chance.I hope you bring on some wolves and see first hand what they do I think you will be surprised what they are capable of.Anyway sorry about my spelling and puctuation and my foul attitude,but listening to people who have never seen it first hand and just on the internet on sites you only want to be on dosn’t make sense to me.There is two sides to everything not just one.I can see what you guys are fighting for,but until you come out here and talk to ranchers and the people out in this country whose livihoods are effected by the decisions people make that don’t live here,and wonder why we have a foul attitude come on thats not right eather.
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This is my last comment to you. There are more than a few of us who have been in Montana in winter and we know that a healthy horse is one that can be out all year. I have seen wolves on buffalo and know what they can do. If the elk are not hanging where they used to it is because they are more wary now and learning to move in places where they have a better advantage. I have elk out behind the cabin right now eating willow by the creek in the snow. Where mountain lions prey on horses they begin to come together in larger groups for safety. Predators make wildlife act naturally and live defensively. What you are used to is wildlife with little predation. Wolves move fast and kill in packs and that is disturbing to ranchers and why they were wiped out to begin with. Mar
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Rob,
This letter comes across as actually friendly! There is one major correction. Folks on this blog and many other Mustang/Burro activist blogs ARE from Montana! You keep missing that fact. Many folks on the Mustang side are from Wyoming, Colorado, Idaho, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Arizona, California, Oregon, Washington, North & South Dakota, Nebraska and Utah. Did I miss any of the western states where the highly prized uranium mining is sought after? Then there are those folks from the states with BLM holding facilities such as Oklahoma. These folks collectively have more working hours out in the desert, on the range or in the mountains than you could possibly ever imagine. They have tried diligently to make you aware of their first hand knowledge and lifetime of vast experience. Some of these folks are highly educated and have world renowned influence. There hands are not soft but hardened by years of back breaking work.
You said a great deal about points of interest on behalf of pro-Mustang preservation. Did you realize that? In your work you have seen abundant wildlife. You mention no Mustangs. Maybe because they all have been rounded up & imprisoned or slaughtered, released back into their habitats sterile, died naturally or perished via predators? You mention your domestic horses living in brutal conditions during the winter but adapting just fine. You state that we would be surprised with the capabilities of your own horses and we would see a happy bunch of fat horses in spring. Hmmm. Hard winter. Only hay for feed. On their own for a water source. No shelter. Do you actually check the horses every day? If domestic horses can, why not wild Mustangs and Burros who have lived their entire lives IN the elements? You better call the DOI and BLM. You just buried 6 feet under their biggest justification for Mustang roundups. Few Mustangs to be found by the average person and if domestic horses winter just fine and live, why not Mustangs? Also, kinda throws the whole Angle Bentley arguement out the window on so called starving & dying domestic horses that were released into the wild by abusive owners.
The brass tacks of you digging your heels into a lame & dying arguement over Mustang and Burro rights is the fact that you do not want anyone to tell you what to do. Somehow you believe the American Constitution and the Bill of Rights applies to your livelyhood alone. No one else has the right to pursue happiness, liberty or justice. If other causes interfere with what you have deemed “owed” to you, the other cause must give way to what you feel is entitled to you. How on earth could a country run on such a premise if everyone used that notion? What’s mine is mine and what’s yours is mine too. Even if your vison is shortsighted & narrow minded (and you realize this fact), you would rather be right to the death than humble enough to see the greater good. It’s a big world Rob. It does not revolve around you, any other single individual, special interest group or single enterprise. There are laws and regulations in this country we ALL must adhere to to avoid chaos and civil disobedience. The BLM and the DOI are asking, no begging, for civil unrest in this country with their blatant law breaking, deceitful, greedy, proud and destructive ways. Think they are only after some silly Mustangs and Burros? Think again Rob. Think deeper. This whole issue is not about your cattle either. I suggest you guard them dearly. Those cattle will be the next ‘nuisance’ to go. It’s the land being sought after with dirty, underhanded agendas from federal agencies and foreign interest groups. Our country is being sold to pay back debts or used as collateral on loans. Research the blood thirsty hunger for uranium mining in this world.
Just so you don’t think I am talking from a high and mighty pedestal, I admit I have been where you are. It is a frustrating place in your mind and soul to camp out in. Just remember this little fact. When you point your finger at someone else, there are 3 fingers (on your hand) pointing back towards yourself.
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Rob, And Arizona – does have wild horses too, in our forests – which most people don’t know is the largest stand of Pondersoa Pine in the world. Not all desert – though there are some desert dwelling wild horses also.
Up until about 10 – 15 years ago I spent all my free time in the outdoors, all over the west and Oklahoma, Missouri. And I’ve seen the ragnes that cattle have ruined all through Texas. I was born on a cattle & horse ranch. I saw the “breaking” of wild horses before I was even school age, as my uncle used to be one of those wrangles that went out and got the horses. I’ve hunted (no more – though I have no problem with restrained hunting) and cleaned. Why do you suggest that we are all only sitting at computers, never been out of the house?
You are so funny in YOUR little world!
Myabe this is to Angle or Rod, I don’t remember if it was you talking about feeding the starving children of the world – but I’ve never been to India or Africa or other places in the world to “see” those children – so are you implying that I should not try to help them because I have not personally “seen them with my own eyes”? If I have not “seen them myself” that it is not true? Wow, thats a relief! Now I can only worry about my cities starving children right here in America that I can “see” – how many would stopping the Calico round-up feed?
And, I “see” my tax dollars going to you, and the roundups and the holding.
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Morgan, you did mention Arizona – so much to read today, I apologize for skimming too quickly.
RT, the Robs, Rods, Angles of this blog are fullfilling your slogan of “fasten your seat belts”. And giving us much practice and resolve! Thanks for letting them through.
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Rob, don’t make assumptions. My family LIVES in Montana and I have seen the horses as have most of the advocates that are here. Ginger Kathrens has been in the Pryors for 15 years. We do not look at the world through rose colored glasses and most of us have multiple horses and live on land that must support those horses so in one way we are on the same page. We understand predation and we are good with it. We don’t want to run around feeding wild horses like they are animals in the zoo, we want them left alone as they have been for centuries…big difference.
Where we differ is what you do with “excess” horses…kill them outright or send to slaughter. Put a bullet in a horses head is far more humane that the slaughter route but instead of killing a vital, young horse because his confirmation might not be what you want, geld him, and sell him at a lower price to be a trail horse, or a pet to others who are more interested in the horse for what he is versus what he looks like. Couple that with responsible breeding and you are in a win/win situation for both yourself and the horses.
No one wants you out of business, but if we could get the AQHA to be more responsible with the breeding program the prices would remain high and the over breeding problem would disappear.
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Rob,
Where are you in Montana? I am near Ovando. Perhaps we could meet sometime.
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Re-post – I accidentially responded to Morgan, I want to make sure Rob gets this (and fix some typos):
Rob, And Arizona – does have wild horses too, in our forests – which most people don’t know is the largest stand of Pondersoa Pine in the world. Not all desert – though there are some desert dwelling wild horses also.
Up until about 10 – 15 years ago I spent all my free time in the outdoors, all over the west and New Mexico, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Missouri. And I’ve seen the ranges that cattle have ruined all through Texas. My great aunt told of her early marriage years in Texas on a little ranch, where they grew what they needed and a little for profit and how beautiful the land and wildlife was in the 1890’s – then they leased to a cattle group, then the oil wells came, they drove out the wildlife! I was born on a cattle & horse ranch. I saw the “breaking” of wild horses before I was even school age (1951 +/- perhaps), as my uncle used to be one of those wrangles that went out and got the horses. I’ve hunted (no more – though I have no problem with restrained hunting) and cleaned. Why do you suggest that we are all only sitting at computers, never been out of the house?
You are so funny in YOUR little world!
Myabe this is to Angle or Rod, I don’t remember if it was you talking about feeding the starving children of the world – but I’ve never been to India or Africa or other places in the world to “see” those children – so are you implying that I should not try to help them because I have not personally “seen them with my own eyes”? If I have not “seen them myself” that it is not true? Wow, thats a relief! Now I can only worry about my cities starving children right here in America that I can “see” – how many would be fed by the money going to the Calico round-up?
And, I “see” my tax dollars going to you, and the roundups and the holding.
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Rob, still waiting for your links or websites to the 2 sides of every story –
Really, I will read every one.
At this particular time in my life I am unable to “go out there and see for myself” so you are going to have to provide me with your pictures and evidence. Even cowboys have cell phones and cameras I presume.
When I started investigating this subject 8 or so months ago, before I really signed myself on to it I tried to find the evidence you claim. I asked, and still do to this day, almost every day, every anti wild horse commenter on YouTube and PBS, and never get a reply.
To be sure of the issues, and in fairness and to really find the truth, I went to cattle sites – not much there, some of what I did find would be ridiculous to anyone –
“Wild horses are going to cause us all to starve to death ” – good grief! Never found one with a contact us so I could ask questions, certainly no sites like this for open discussion. So, if I just did not have the right search words, please direct me.
I devoured every BLM website, sent e-mails to them to answer my questions – got either “That is not available” or no reply. But I can go onto every single pro wild horse page and ask questions and have seldom gotten any no reply, and the replies I do get are not canned, and always provide me more information to seek out.
But I could easily find all kinds of evidence to contradict you all over the place. So what will it be?
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you know Rob we are all on the same page about horses except, end of life for a horse is NOT a slaughterhouse. I would hope you have a humane end of life for all your companion and working animals. Hopefully you for example don’t throw your old cow-dog out your car window when he can’t work any more.
Business people like slaughterhouse sue, spew out some lies, misinformation and use fear tactics and sure seem to trick some of the population- like you very easy.
There are many horse rescues with years more experience than Sue and have the placements of thousands of horses to prove it! If those large horse breeders would stop flooding the market with their over production sure would make life easier helping the very few abandoned horses and the few private people who are out of work and need a hand with a few bales of hay.
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I find it interesting that “Rob” did not respond to my offer to meet a fellow Montana person and discuss this issue. I don’t believe he is even from Montana. But someone who is pro-slaughter just trying to rile us all up….
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Sorry to tell you Laura Leigh but 150,000 uneducated, city folk “horse advocates” is NOT the rest of the country – last I heard, the population was in the millions: more specific the population “estimates” (yes, just like the BLM estimates the horse population by “undercounting” as stated in the October 2008 GAO Report), it’s just an estimate as babies are born every second – ready?? here they are:
Population in 2008: 304,059,724
Population in 2000: 281,421,906
Population in 1990: 248,709,873
Get yourself educated before you sprew the internet propaganda!!
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Nevada Realist – you really need to change your name
“Realist” Really?
Reality check – “here they are:” here they are from where? and Population of what exactly, cows, pigs, bees?
And once again you assume an awful lot about “150,000 uneducated, city folk “horse advocates””.
“last I heard, the population was in the millions” of what? If your talking about human population in USA, you MAY NOT ASSUMPE, that anyone you don’t know who has not directly supported you, is on your side.
Assume – You make an ass out of you and me – but, me, only if I accept your assumptions, which I do not. So that leaves you with an awfully large ASS HEAD.
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Nevada Realist, this is out of context because your following reply to me does not allow a direct reply to you.
Let me talk, western, where I live and and have lived most of my long life, some city some country, some farm, some ranch, in backwoods vernacular so you will understand “them thar were fighin words”.
Reply to a reply to a reply by Nevada Realists says “Roxy – wild horses are NOT a natural part of the environment!! Let’s at least start there….
Nevada Realist January 6, 2010 at 5:47 PM | #76 Quote AND most of the BLM specialists DO NOT GET overtime – they are salaried employees; as for the Contractors that work some of these gathers – they are paid a certain amount agreed upon PRIOR to the gather so whether they work holidays weekends or 18 hour days, they get the same amount… do you not knows the laws of Government Contracting??”
For the sake of every on here, and I’ve already done it several times for teh benefit of the uneducated, I am not going to cut and paste Wikipedia or Miriam Webster dictionary again – where you, Nevada Realist, can find the origins, migration paths (whether on their own or brought by man – like are you Native American?), what “native” means, all kinds of “stuff” of interest to the educated mind, of every animal species on earth – horses, wild horses, elk, cows, pigs, speaking of which – since you hate the internet so much, you can also find this information in any number of Libraries, Colleges and Universities nationwide.
Assumptions again – your head is going to explode with ASS stuff! Make way everyone – this is not going to smell good!
Would 20 years in city government, assgined tor travel around all over the country, working on numerous national (federal), state, county, tribal and other communities laws and cooperative teams, about 8 years secretary to a non-profit that was an advisory board to several other city, state, county, tribal and federal government and quasi government agencies be good enough for you? You might say I know enough about government contracting. I almost forgot; add outside experience with government regulated contracts and rules and regs for another almost 20 years from the private sector, on top of my public service. Oh, and does teaching real estate licensing law for 5 years help me out maybe just a tiny bit in understanding legal issues – I’m not an attorney, taught under the jurisprudence (?) of state attorneys?
Geez, anyone want to hire me – resume just posted here!
Yes, and sometimes I was salaried and sometimes I was not. I did not make any reference to what contracted emplyees made or did not make or under whether they were “exempt or non-exempt”, comp time agreements, etc. and don’t really need to know that, because yes I undertand government contracting and anyway we already know exactly those contract prices and the contractor (singular)that got them – they are public record.
But now you’ve opened up another can of worms for yourself (did you say something about digging ones oown grave somewhere). So how many BLM employees got how much overtime as compared to BLM salaried employees on overtime days, hours? And how many salaried BLM employees got “comp” time off duty to replace any over usage? You know you may force a Freedom of Information Act request here if you’re not careful – may have already been done or in the making – hope so!
I’m starting classes soon (on top of 40 or so years of continual continuing college education – but you must have soooo much more than that to compare to my lowly uneducated status), so won’t have much time for a while. Gettin’ that darn education that I am so sorely in need of!
By the way, I wish Rob, Rod, Angle and even you the very best, as long as you stay away from wild horses. If you really want to be on the side of the very best you would join us!
Done it again, novelette by Roxy.
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Nevada Realist – I wish I could post this further down
PS I am done with wasting my time with you. You send me your links, refernces, your back up, sources of your education etc. and I’ll read them, but I will not reply to any more of your posts here – provide us with an open forum like this one – lets take the conversation there.
Anyone else feel like responding to any comments this person makes directly to me, please do so. It won’t sway this person – but it may put other “thinking people” on the right track.
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Correction – replace comp for salaried emplyees with “administative leave” which means any hours worked over 40 (if your weekly – however, there are other setups and cops and fire fighters are also on a diferenet set up) is accumulated as admistrative leave which can be used anyitme your supervisor approves it, so sallaried employees can take off for vacations, medical without using their vacation or medical time, thus adding to their retirement benefits and bonuses at the end, at those higher salary figures than when they actually accumulated the administrative leave (this is public service and private sector both, but each entity is deferent about this – need to check each one individually to know – all federal might be the same – don’t know).
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Why do you think we’re “city folk”? Uneducated in what way? I don’t live in the city, and I’ve owned horses for over 30 years.
I am NOT PETA or HSUS either, as Sue Wallis and her ilk would have you believe. Neither are the VAST majority of equine advocates. We work for animal “welfare” not “rights”
In fact, if a person owns ANY kind of animal, they’re not PETA! You and your pro-horse eating buddies really DO need to get that straight. We don’t care if you keep on slaughtering cattle. We just don’t want you to START slaughtering HORSES! Get it?
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Rob is probably on a disconnect dump run for equines. They go to California (and this is only a guess) because the anarchy that is horsemeat slaughter for HC in the US and the dysfunction at the Junction of Mexico is sailing right along. I’m assuming that Canada can’t pencil whip withdrawel periods like Mexico…ergo, the slime overbreeders (mostly QH breeders) have made connections with the KBs for MEX KHs. I think old Rob is out of the net for now.
Anyone want to speculate on the gun, drug and money laundering trade down south and it’s connection to horse shipments for slaughter??????
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Rob, if you are running a business breeding, that means you are making money from the foals, yes? Is there some reason that when you breed a horse, you can’t set aside $300 and then if you can’t sell the foal or place it in a good home, you can humanely euthanize the foal? If you sell the foal, then you have $300 that you can use for another horse. Isn’t that part of being a responsible owner and not contributing to excess horses? It is your choice to breed and bring another horse into the population. That makes it your responsibility to care for the horse, in life and death.
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WALLIS SAYS – Because horses are traditional food animals in most of the world,
Anne’s comment:
WRONG ! ! ! for example; the enitre nation of India; which has over 1 Billion people ! are mostly Vegetarians where the Cow is actually considered to be Sacred !
in my opinion; if the Average Cow in India is considered to be Sacred; I would only imagine the Horses in India are considered to be Holy; here’s to the Sacred Cow and the Holy Horse; where in India you go to jall for harming a cow or horse !
so Sue iw worng when she says; WALLIS SAYS – Because horses are traditional food animals in most of the world, truth” in Aisa and south America; not most of the world; for example; this is not allowed in our own antion; WE ARE THE WORLD …
Reality: Most nations abhor this thought and only pagans descend to this level; A.
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WoW!
This lady is batty! For people who have owned,loved,cared, or had a friendship bond with a horse that no one could break this article is a bunch of horse shit! There are places that would gladly take in horses rather than some dumb ass abandon it! THERES A PLACE CALLED EQUINE HAVENS ALL OVER AMERICA! If you cant afford a horse don’t get it then.It takes time, money, and patients to tend to horses. THis is kind of like California getting rid of chiuauahs! (which i also) have one!). Killing plants are not even a question. The way i look at it, if members of the congress are concerened about bringing the slaughter houses back, DIG INTO YOUR OWN POCKETS, and help to maintain the care of horses with more rescue houses. Wow im pissed at this articl more than anything.Don’t waste OUR tax dollars on your dumb wants and needs. Why dont yall all adopt a few horses?
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Representative Walis is reprehensible as is Wyoming’s Governor Dave Fruedenthal. He is responsible for reinstating equine slaughter legislation. ‘Slaughterhouse Sue’, as she is known on You Tube, is expected to implement equine slaughter. Those interested in signing a petition against this vile legislation may go to ‘the petition site’, search the petition by typing in Walis and/or Wyoming slaughterhouse, then sign the petition as directed. The goal is 1000 signatures. Thank you for circulating information on this issue. Please help us in Wyoming. The ranching, cowgirl mentality is pervasive. Many of our jobs have been lost or threatened due to our stance on animal rights. We need to work from the top of the political heirarchy down. Please target Wyoming as a noxious state regarding animal issues.
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Sue Wallis, another disgusting horse killer, horse meat eater, woman, Politician. Died young. From What???
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…Eating Crow!
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